Backhoe attachment comparison

[RPW]

I am looking for a unbiased comparison of 3pt or subframe mounted backhoes. I've looked at the various posts here but would like some updated information. So far I've looked at Woods, WoodMaxx and Liberty. I'd like to see some personal opinions for the models purchased. Other brands would be good to know. Not concerned whether new or used market. Most likely I'll be purchasing new but will be looking at used also. Main uses will be general digging (stock tank comes to mind), trenching, Some stump/tree removal (most of property is cleared already), digging up rocks of various sizes but none so far larger than 3ft. x 6ft. x 2ft. mostly smaller.

Currently I have what I call a baby hoe primarily bought for trenching but it really doesn't have the power to perform well.

The basic specs are 8+ ft. digging depth. In a pinch 7ft. will work.
Bucket size recommended (I will be adding a 9in for trenching work).
3pt. or subframe mount. I know the difference so this will be if a subframe is available for my tractor.
PTO pump or attach to tractor hydraulics.
Prices noted either online or through local dealers. If local dealers do they ship to Texas and shipping costs (if known).

I currently have a JD 5103 ~50HP. ~45 at the PTO.

Thanks.

 

[jajiu]

I have a Kubota L3560 HSTC and also looking for a backhoe. I have looked at subframe and 3-pt and most everyone says subframe is the way to go, but I am also looking at FHM (FH-BH7) from BETSTCO.com from Oregon with free shipping on ebay. It will be interesting to see the responses you get and I'll pay close attention to what is said and weigh out my options.

 

[RPW]

Add that dealer to my list. Comparing their BMH8 to the others is pretty close. Most values are only about 50lbs give or take. Pricing is good.

 

[Sun Treader]

I started a thread a week or so ago describing my experiences with a WoodMaxx WM-8600 backhoe. Very positive is the short version. If my Case IH did have a subframe or OEM backhoe available it wouldn't be available anymore or frightfully expensive. I'm perfectly comfortable with the 3-point setup. No argument that a subframe would be better, but not cost effective for most of us without an original subframe and matching backhoe available. As far as the actual work goes, I don't think a subframe backhoe would dig any better than a 3-point model.

My 'big' bucket is 16" and in our heavy clay soils that feels about right. I added a 9" bucket for trenching and it does a great job. I also have a ripper tooth for pulling stumps and its very effective, with the ripper I can really grab a stump and pull it out. With a bucket you're having to actually dig the whole thing out. I have the hydraulic thumb as well and that's a worthwhile option to have.

I had wanted to run from the tractor hydraulics but the WoodMaxx has a PTO pump and its own hydraulics and now that I have that system I'm sold that is a better way to go.

I shopped around as much as possible and the WoodMaxx was the best value for me. I don't think I found a larger hoe anywhere, there were a few that were maybe a few hundred less expensive, but I didn't have any faith that the importers actually knew the product or could provide service, WoodMaxx really knows their product and support has been great.

Of course if you know what you're doing you can fabricate anything but there aren't really any aftermarket subframe options as far as I can tell, you'd be tied to whatever Deere hoe was made for your machine. I'm sure it would be an excellent implement, but I suspect the cost would be twice what a similar aftermarket attachment would be. Just a guess.

David

 

[newbury]

<snip>
The basic specs are 8+ ft. digging depth. In a pinch 7ft. will work.
Bucket size recommended (I will be adding a 9in for trenching work).
3pt. or subframe mount. I know the difference so this will be if a subframe is available for my tractor.
PTO pump or attach to tractor hydraulics.
Prices noted either online or through local dealers. If local dealers do they ship to Texas and shipping costs (if known).

I currently have a JD 5103 ~50HP. ~45 at the PTO.

Thanks.

I've a Woods BH70-X, bought for my B7610. While I was looking for a method to use it on my M4700 I was in discussions with technical people at Woods. Their thought was that as you get to larger tractors the subframe was not needed, just an "enhanced" 3pt, with a heavy duty top link.

.

As far as a source I'd suggest you look at Rosseel's.

 

[jajiu]

Thanks for the great info David. As I told RPW, I'm leaning towards the FHM from BETSTCO. It comes with a PTO pump, which like you, I have been leaning in favor of. The only thing that has been bothering me is 3-pt vs subframe. Most are heavily in favor of subframe, which I understand is better, but as you say very cost prohibitive. I'm sure if 3-pt set ups were that bad, no one would buy them, and I have read a lot of good about them, and being a home owner, not a contractor and the backhoe would not be in daily use, I am really leaning that way.
George

 

[Foodplot]

I have a JD 5220, a similarly sized tractor. I found an orphan matching JD backhoe on a dealer's lot, got a great deal on it. It works fine using the tractor's hydraulics. HOWEVER, even though it's quick-attach to a permanently mounted subframe, it's a sufficient hassle to take it on and off and replace the 3-point parts on the tractor that I use a second tractor for just about everything else. If I were doing it again, I'd look for a reasonably priced dedicated TLB. With the tractor, you spend a lot of time switching seats, and the seat on the backhoe was made for leprechauns.

 

[Sun Treader]

Yep, I'd echo what others have said. A subframe would be great but really expensive and for the personal use I have, the 3-point is fine.

I took a look at the Betstco, the machine *looks* like a good one, but support is really important and I just get a bad vibe from them, they look to me like a straight importer. I could be wrong, I haven't dealt with them, maybe someone who has could let us know how that went? I think the Betstco unit uses a PTO shaft to turn a fixed pump? That would be more a hassle than the pump that mounts right to the PTO on the tractor and just has hoses between the two.

The Woods units look excellent, maybe the best aftermarket backhoes. I'm a pretty low intensity user but am always time limited in when I can work on the farm so having that good support has been great and I just didn't want to spend too much, its all about value for what you need. If its serious digging for one project then rent a mini excavator, if its tons of trenching, rent a trencher, if its general farm and construction use like it sounds like you're intending then I think you're on the right track. Just be prepared to hop on and off constantly to reposition, that's the biggest pain.

The WoodMaxx I have has an integral heavy duty top link, you absolutely shouldn't run a 3-point backhoe with a standard top link, they should have one integral to the attachment. Its important to get everything back there really dialed in and bar tight and absolutely not try to adjust the 3-point lift once installed.

After a couple of tries attaching and removing the 3-point backhoe it is about as easy as any other attachment. I don't have any of the quick attach systems, too many varied implements. So, I'm not quick attaching anything, but the hoe isn't any worse than the others. Easier in some ways since I can attach the PTO pump and use the hoe's hydraulics to move it around and into position once I'm backed in. My suspicion is its easier to attach and remove than a subframe backhoe.

Let us know what you end up with and share some photos!

David

 

[City Farmer]

I had the Woods 7500 attachment. It's a 1000x better than a shovel and it will dig up the rocks, stumps and whatever else you want but it's slow going. From the sounds of what your wanting to do and the $$$$ your going to spend, you'll "probably" be very disappointed trying to move those rocks around. Like some of the other guys have said, get yourself a dedicated TLB and don't look back. I sold the attachment and picked up a Ford 4400 TLB 2250hrs for $6k. It needed about $600 and some wrenching to get it right but you can't even compare it to a BH attachment. It snaps trees in half and pulls the stump out in one shot.

 

[RPW]

Thanks for the replies so far. Interesting comment about the integral toplink or for the Woods the Safety link. I does make me feel a bit better about a 3pt mount. As far as a dedicated TLB around here they're scarce on the used market and the last one I saw sold at action was a Deere and it went for about $17k and it was an older one. Most things at this auction went fairly inexpense most likely because of the weather. Although I don't have a problem wrenching equipment I'm on a deadline to get some trenching in. If I need to I could rent but I'm also using this oportunity to get another toy errrrr tool As far as capability I agree that a dedicated TLB is hands down the best option but it's not going to be often that I'd need to grub a rock that large and time isn't critical for those projects and they're few and far between. I also might be exagerating a bit on the size. It just seems like I'm hitting some very large rocks doing my fences etc.

 

[dfkrug]

While I was looking for a method to use it on my M4700 I was in discussions with
technical people at Woods. Their thought was that as you get to larger tractors the subframe was not needed,
just an "enhanced" 3pt, with a heavy duty top link.

Of course, the M4700 is way more tractor than the 7610, even if both come with a Category 1 Three-point hitch.

All new hoe attachments that I am aware of, designed for 3-point use, come with the locking brace
and special stiff toplink. I have a pile of them here.

Note that hoe makers do not warrant tractors for damage caused by the hoe, and tractor makers mostly
void your tractor warranty if you put a hoe on their Cat 1 hitch.

Cat 2 is probably OK.

 

[fried1765]

I had the Woods 7500 attachment. It's a 1000x better than a shovel and it will dig up the rocks, stumps and whatever else you want but it's slow going. From the sounds of what your wanting to do and the $$$$ your going to spend, you'll "probably" be very disappointed trying to move those rocks around. Like some of the other guys have said, get yourself a dedicated TLB and don't look back. I sold the attachment and picked up a Ford 4400 TLB 2250hrs for $6k. It needed about $600 and some wrenching to get it right but you can't even compare it to a BH attachment. It snaps trees in half and pulls the stump out in one shot.

This is the ABSOLUTE BEST piece of advice anyone has put forth here!
26 years ago I was looking for a tractor with a backhoe attachment, something not too massive, so I could go through the woods.
Stopped in at the local Ford tractor dealer, and discussed my WANTS with the owner.
He told me: "Don't waste your money on one of those attachment thingys. Give me some time, and I will find you a real machine.
It took 22 months, but he came up with a used 46HP gas Ford 3400TLB with a quick disconnect 10' reach Ford branded hoe ($10,000 total)
The machine had come from a cemetery, was 20 years old, and had 1350 hours.
That machine now has 1900 hrs., is on it's 46th year, and is going to get a manual thumb, and a second repaint this year.
I have it ONLY for my own use. On my small property of 12 acres, it has paid for itself, and rather than renting a hoe when needing one, mine is always available when I need it.
THE MACHINE IS STRONG AS AN OX !!
It has done stump removal (big ones), major yard grading/landscaping, 2 complete septic systems, 1000 gal. underground oil tank, water/electric line, tree transplanting, etc. etc.
The machine has a 2' wide hoe bucket, and a 5/8 yd. loader bucket, and I have set of bucket curl forks also.
Buying that machine was the best equipment choice I ever made.
In the current very good condition, I believe the value might still be $8,000.
For other uses I also have a freshly restored (she's a beauty) 28 year old Ford 1920 ( 2 bottom plow, 60" tiller, and 60" bush hog ).
The moral of the story as I see it is.......
If you want a backhoe: Buy a REAL TLB, that will do REAL work! (don't buy a junker though)
Unless you are going into business, YOU DO NOT NEED TO BUY A NEW TLB!

I am 75 years old, and I will NEVER SELL MY TLB !!!!
I would ask that it be used to dig my grave, but I doubt that a national cemetery will allow that.

 

[Green Acres Homestead]

I got about 30 hours on my Kubota bh92 backhoe. Here is a video about my honest opinion of it.
pros and cons of a backhoe implement & what can it do? - YouTube

 

[KenB2920]

Any updates? How’s the hoe treating you? Any regrets ?

 

[Green Acres Homestead]

Any updates? How’s the hoe treating you? Any regrets ?

Hi Ken. My backhoe works very good and I like it. Of course it has it's pros and cons. Pros is it is powerful when hooked to my L4740. Other complain of performance issues when used with smaller tractors. I took out a cluster of 3 stumps, 2 foot per stumps. The removal of this stump cluster can be seen at A hack for the removal and disposing of stumps - YouTube It works well and the controls are smooth. I don't have not problem digging through clay with a 16 inch bucket. I don't suspect an 18 inch bucket would stop it either. Over all I like it but below is some factors to take into considerations:

1. the overhang(the hoe sticks out about 4 feet past the tires of the tractor) gets hung up on stumps and rocks when traveling the logging road or atv trails. You have to travel very very carefully because if the tires go down in a hole the hoe could get caught up on a rock. The hoes is robust but none the less I suppose you cold ben some stuff up. I suspect the overhand could also pose an issue when loading it on a trailer.

2. Some say there was a performance problem( slow) when hook to their tractor. At about 2000 rpms hook to my 47 hp tractor it's not to bad. You can see the speed it operates at 2000 RPMs near the end of the above video. You can decide if that is fast enough for your liking.

3. When it comes to ditching a trail it has some draw backs. It is a bit more ackward then an excavator to use if you can't straddle the ditch. I got a work around for that problem. Instead of positioning back on to the ditch I drive beside the ditch and do the digging at a 90 degree angle to the tractor. I found that it would not be very efficient to get off the backhoe then go into the tractor to reposition it so I have a rope and pulley hooked to the HST peddle. This allows me to advance the tractor along the ditch which efficiently repositions the tractor.

4. My tires are loaded so pushing and lifting the tractor seems to be to much of a strain on the hoe and causes to much sideways twist to always be shifting the tractor from side to side. I do it only when I have to.

5. Another disadvantage of a backhoe over a mini excavator with zero clearance rotation is that you cannot position immediately beside a foundation side on. This because of the stabilizers comes down and the hoe is hinge in the middle of the tractor. Don't get me wrong you can still dig at 90 degrees of the tractor or position the tractor back on to the wall but it's harder to end up with a clean. I never did this task yet so I am just making assumptions on this one.

6. The manual thumb is very handy to have but it cost something like $1000. Personally doing what I do which is digging stumps, moving brush and rocks I could not be without a thumb. A hydraulic would be better but it is $3000 here in Canada. I am glad I went with a manual one because it work good and is less expensive. When using the manual thumb and your are doing a task of picking things up and moving them, you can adjust the length of the manual thumbs arm. This brings it closer to the bucket and you sure can use it efficiently. But then if you go to dig when you curl the buck you squeeze the ground tight into the bucket and wet clay doesn't always come out easily. So I have the thumb adjusted so that I can still pick things up, it's not usually in the way and it doesn't squeeze and pack a heaping bucket full of hard into the bucket.

7. I heard that when you switch out the bucket you can somehow mess up the pin which can be a bit expensive to repair. Maybe somebody can shed some light on this. At any rate I kind wish I bought the quick attach bucket system. It was another $1000 or so here in Canada.

8. Taking on and off the backhoe is not to bad but keep in mind that although you can put it on and take it off without taking off the 3 point hitch system is is highly recommended that you do in fact take off the hitch. Apparently you can bend stuff up.

9. You cannot touch or use the other rear hydraulic ports when the backhoe is attached. Apparently you can cause yourself very expensive repairs if you do so like blow out the hydro pump. When I have the backhoe on I lock the lift arm leaver with the little thumb screws. This way I don't accidentally move the three point hitch cylinders. Without the 3point hitch arms on I don't know if it would do any damage or not but potentially using the rear hydro functions in anyway with the backhoe install can cause repairs so I don't take a chance. I lock the 3 pt hitch arm lever.

9. I have other projects I did with my backhoe which can be seen on my youtube channel. I have some outdoor videos as well so you may have to scroll around to find the backhoe videos. Green Acres
- YouTube

Hope this all helps.
Ray

 

[KenB2920]

Hi Ken. My backhoe works very good and I like it. Of course it has it's pros and cons. Pros is it is powerful when hooked to my L4740. Other complain of performance issues when used with smaller tractors. I took out a cluster of 3 stumps, 2 foot per stumps. The removal of this stump cluster can be seen at A hack for the removal and disposing of stumps - YouTube It works well and the controls are smooth. I don't have not problem digging through clay with a 16 inch bucket. I don't suspect an 18 inch bucket would stop it either. Over all I like it but below is some factors to take into considerations:

1. the overhang(the hoe sticks out about 4 feet past the tires of the tractor) gets hung up on stumps and rocks when traveling the logging road or atv trails. You have to travel very very carefully because if the tires go down in a hole the hoe could get caught up on a rock. The hoes is robust but none the less I suppose you cold ben some stuff up. I suspect the overhand could also pose an issue when loading it on a trailer.

2. Some say there was a performance problem( slow) when hook to their tractor. At about 2000 rpms hook to my 47 hp tractor it's not to bad. You can see the speed it operates at 2000 RPMs near the end of the above video. You can decide if that is fast enough for your liking.

3. When it comes to ditching a trail it has some draw backs. It is a bit more ackward then an excavator to use if you can't straddle the ditch. I got a work around for that problem. Instead of positioning back on to the ditch I drive beside the ditch and do the digging at a 90 degree angle to the tractor. I found that it would not be very efficient to get off the backhoe then go into the tractor to reposition it so I have a rope and pulley hooked to the HST peddle. This allows me to advance the tractor along the ditch which efficiently repositions the tractor.

4. My tires are loaded so pushing and lifting the tractor seems to be to much of a strain on the hoe and causes to much sideways twist to always be shifting the tractor from side to side. I do it only when I have to.

5. Another disadvantage of a backhoe over a mini excavator with zero clearance rotation is that you cannot position immediately beside a foundation side on. This because of the stabilizers comes down and the hoe is hinge in the middle of the tractor. Don't get me wrong you can still dig at 90 degrees of the tractor or position the tractor back on to the wall but it's harder to end up with a clean. I never did this task yet so I am just making assumptions on this one.

6. The manual thumb is very handy to have but it cost something like $1000. Personally doing what I do which is digging stumps, moving brush and rocks I could not be without a thumb. A hydraulic would be better but it is $3000 here in Canada. I am glad I went with a manual one because it work good and is less expensive. When using the manual thumb and your are doing a task of picking things up and moving them, you can adjust the length of the manual thumbs arm. This brings it closer to the bucket and you sure can use it efficiently. But then if you go to dig when you curl the buck you squeeze the ground tight into the bucket and wet clay doesn't always come out easily. So I have the thumb adjusted so that I can still pick things up, it's not usually in the way and it doesn't squeeze and pack a heaping bucket full of hard into the bucket.

7. I heard that when you switch out the bucket you can somehow mess up the pin which can be a bit expensive to repair. Maybe somebody can shed some light on this. At any rate I kind wish I bought the quick attach bucket system. It was another $1000 or so here in Canada.

8. Taking on and off the backhoe is not to bad but keep in mind that although you can put it on and take it off without taking off the 3 point hitch system is is highly recommended that you do in fact take off the hitch. Apparently you can bend stuff up.

9. You cannot touch or use the other rear hydraulic ports when the backhoe is attached. Apparently you can cause yourself very expensive repairs if you do so like blow out the hydro pump. When I have the backhoe on I lock the lift arm leaver with the little thumb screws. This way I don't accidentally move the three point hitch cylinders. Without the 3point hitch arms on I don't know if it would do any damage or not but potentially using the rear hydro functions in anyway with the backhoe install can cause repairs so I don't take a chance. I lock the 3 pt hitch arm lever.

9. I have other projects I did with my backhoe which can be seen on my youtube channel. I have some outdoor videos as well so you may have to scroll around to find the backhoe videos. Green Acres
- YouTube

Hope this all helps.
Ray

Wow! Lots of great info! Thank you!

Can you add quick attach bucket or hydraulic thumb after the fact? (I realize it may cost money, just curious if its possible)

As for your videos, I watched one the other day. I will now scroll through and watch more.

As bad as this sounds, I’ll probably rent a stump grinder for a day to clear out a ton of stumps I currently have. However, I would like to use the hoe in certain stumps.

I can totally see the overhang causing some issues. Does this actually stop the machine? Or does it bang it up?

Our machines are extremely similar so hopefully speed is adequate. Even if it’s slow. And I am sure after a long day of using it, it may get annoying. But it’s better than spending double on a comparable mini and it beats using a shovel.

I’ll have to look at my three point. Is it mostly Lynch pins and a couple bolts ?

Good call in locking out the 3pt when hoe is on.

 

[Green Acres Homestead]

Yep... you can add quick attach and quick attach bucket and a hydraulic thumb after the fact. Stump grinding is not that bad but it does leave the stump in the ground and on big stumps you hard to get 6 inches below ground level. As for the overhang I did not bend anything or know anybody that did however I crawl in bad condition because if you hit a big sold rock going even 5 to 10 km it would give it a bad wallop. I suspect if it hit the stabilizer mount it could bend them. If you really don't want a backhoe and it's just for the one project you could rent an excavator. As for getting off the 3ph it's not to bad. The worse thing is if you loose the hardware it cold cost me 4 hours maybe 4 days to get another one as I live in a remote area. take care.

Wow! Lots of great info! Thank you!

Can you add quick attach bucket or hydraulic thumb after the fact? (I realize it may cost money, just curious if its possible)

As for your videos, I watched one the other day. I will now scroll through and watch more.

As bad as this sounds, I値l probably rent a stump grinder for a day to clear out a ton of stumps I currently have. However, I would like to use the hoe in certain stumps.

I can totally see the overhang causing some issues. Does this actually stop the machine? Or does it bang it up?

Our machines are extremely similar so hopefully speed is adequate. Even if it痴 slow. And I am sure after a long day of using it, it may get annoying. But it痴 better than spending double on a comparable mini and it beats using a shovel.

I値l have to look at my three point. Is it mostly Lynch pins and a couple bolts ?

Good call in locking out the 3pt when hoe is on.

 

[KenB2920]

Yep... you can add quick attach and quick attach bucket and a hydraulic thumb after the fact. Stump grinding is not that bad but it does leave the stump in the ground and on big stumps you hard to get 6 inches below ground level. As for the overhang I did not bend anything or know anybody that did however I crawl in bad condition because if you hit a big sold rock going even 5 to 10 km it would give it a bad wallop. I suspect if it hit the stabilizer mount it could bend them. If you really don't want a backhoe and it's just for the one project you could rent an excavator. As for getting off the 3ph it's not to bad. The worse thing is if you loose the hardware it cold cost me 4 hours maybe 4 days to get another one as I live in a remote area. take care.

Thank you much

No, I really would like one and know it would come in handy for years to come. Plus, it’s the next step in business to grow just a touch.