Are CUT Manufacturers Smart Enough to Follow TBN?

[dnw64]

Here's just a single small example. It doesn't effect safety or cost or production alterations. I didn't invest in a Kubota, I got a Massey scut - although there certainly was a lot of comparisons done before the decision LOL. But I found even before I bought my Massey scut - that I noted an issue that could be improved on with the seat adjustment. After I got my machine I took out 2 bolts holding the seat stop in place - reversed the seat stop and reinstalled the 2 bolts. Without effecting the sensors or drilling or cutting or disconnecting anything - I added over 2 inches of added seat adjustment. then 1 year later I saw where it could be even further improved - by removing 4 bolts and moving the bracket back 1 more hole (again no drilling or cutting or disconnecting of anything - then reinstalled those 4 bolts again. Net result is another 1.5 inches of seat adjustment on top of the prior 2 inches. No cost, no production changes - no safety issues - no modifications of metal or wiring. But that idea now allows a 6 ft. 8 person to sit on my seat, a 4 foot 10 female to sit comfortably, a 350 pound person or a 98 pound person - same seat belt same steering wheel same pedals and cockpit controls. AND it allows for winter coats and boots - or summer tshirts and and sneakers. And no engineer saw it while I saw it easily.

I like a lot of what you say, but those assertions have no proofs. Unless I missed your qualifications, which I very well might have and if so, I apologize.

 

[RickB]

I had no idea you were referring to yourself, I was asking you to point out the individual(s).

I am not going to go read the profile of every single person that posts on here before responding. If that's a requirement, here is my resignation.

You didn’t ask me to do anything.
You suggested I man up? I don’t much care what you read, or if you can read, or whether you resign from whatever it is you are threatening to resign from.

 

[Kubota 2007]

I assume Messicks passes on things to Kubota, but TBN isn't really a brain trust. I'd give good odds that anything big that makes its way onto here has already been taken to a dealer, probably rather boisterously and at great length.

Frankly we're a fairly small site, and while we may be focused on a certain sector, we represent a drop in the ocean of SCUT and CUT ownership.

I can tell you now that if Kubota really listened to TBN the standard L models would no longer come with turnbuckles, and would have a factory TNT option, since those are the two most often recited changes to be made to one of those models.

You seem to have a connection with Messicks, or are you just a Ball Buster?

 

[Jim Nelson]

Kubota offered a seat upgrade for BX owners... the word was TBN had a lot to do with it.

When I read, here on TBN, that Kubota was offering a replacement deal on the lousy original seat on my B7800 my dealer had never heard anything about the deal or TBN. We have a pretty good relationship so he got on his computer and looked up the thread on TBN then went to Kubota site and said "Well you're right, but the deal expired last month". He then offered me the new seat at full retail, about $375. I ordered from Messick's for, as I recall,$150.Been buying most of my parts from Messick's since then

 

[check]

Most of the people at the tractor companies are aware of TBN, it's a respectable source of info. I'd hesitate to say its a great resource though. A certain kind of person comes here, and does not really reflect the average consumer.

Very interesting. How so?

 

[MHarryE]

I worked as an engineer for 3 of the largest OEMs. Customer input was an absolute must at each of the 3. They all would bring customers into the plants for interviews. We sent engineers to equipment shows to see what the competitors were doing and get customer input. All 3 had customers track their machines in the field and provide records, the pluses, the negatives, and the wish list including things they saw on competitors they wanted us to provide. All had to be put together on a wish list when introducing a new model or an option and balance against resources. Being a large company with large resources does not enable a company to put something into production quickly. There is a lot to lose if something goes wrong. If a design flaw is found and somebody is injured or killed, the customer, survivors, and insurance companies in their name will sue the one with the deepest pockets. As an example, if we find something that looks really neat designed and built by a somebody owning a small shop and decide to buy from them and have it as standard equipment or an option and it fails, the person injured will not sue the small company. They go after the deepest pockets. I've been involved in suits where the family of the person killed sued everybody (backed by an insurance company who did the legwork) from the OEM to the dealer to the company he worked for to his crew members. So you need to figure out the demand, cost, selling price, and reliability. Then there are customer expectations. Example - as a large OEM, we supplied one of our machines to a small company, painted in their color and branded with their name. We paid all of their warranty claims. Their identical product received 10% of the claims we did. Customer expectations from us vs the small manufacturer combined with what the company would allow under warranty. Something talked about above, beyond the turnbuckle adjust, is having Top and Tilt. Cost to a customer - 2 remotes, 2 hydraulic cylinders, and plumbing. What if the majority of customers used only the drawbar or a single implement on the 3 point? Having Top and Tilt standard has just priced you out of many customer's range. As for companies listening - Kubota didn't supply an air seat on their Grand L 40's. The 60's have it as an option. Did the option come due to 4Shorts who documented his modification needed to install an air suspension seat on his L5740 or was it through other input? Never know but it happened and I replaced my L5740 with an air suspension equipped L6060. It is still a rough riding beast. Yesterday I hauled a load of brush to our burn pile with our M7-171 and had my wife drive our L6060 with loader and grapple so I could use it to stack. When we got back she told me she never wanted to drive that bucking bronco on the road again (it's spring breakup time in Minnesota). Not my problem she doesn't want to drive the M7.

 

[RickB]

Great post, Harry.

 

[TheMadOne]

You seem to have a connection with Messicks, or are you just a Ball Buster?

The latter, though I do enjoy their videos. I have no association with them. I think they're a solid dealer with a reputation for good service, but they're just farther than I'm willing to travel to have been a customer for a new machine.

I firmly believe in "buying the dealer", and while I'm positive they would have given me a good purchase price, any required service would have to be at additional expense, either in my time/money to haul it to them, or in money for extra road time for them to come to me. Which is fine, nobody's in business to not make money. Meanwhile I see a Hoobers truck fairly often, as they cover my area extensively, their founding store is less than 20 miles from me(meaning I can outright drive the tractor there if I have to) and most of the larger farmers in my area use them for different things, even if it's not tractors.(hay equipment, sprayers, chemicals, etc.)

I do check Messick's site from time to time, hoping to find a good used heavy tractor that I could afford. So far they haven't had anything that really caught my eye...not enough to open up my wallet anyway. I also check Wengers, Hoobers, Atlantic, Deere Country, Binkley(though I tend to forget they exist for some reason), and Valley Ag. Web shopping for tractors is a hobby I acquired when I was first needing one, and I've never really stopped.

 

[Texasmark]

I worked as an engineer for 3 of the largest OEMs. Customer input was an absolute must at each of the 3. They all would bring customers into the plants for interviews. We sent engineers to equipment shows to see what the competitors were doing and get customer input. All 3 had customers track their machines in the field and provide records, the pluses, the negatives, and the wish list including things they saw on competitors they wanted us to provide. All had to be put together on a wish list when introducing a new model or an option and balance against resources. Being a large company with large resources does not enable a company to put something into production quickly. There is a lot to lose if something goes wrong. If a design flaw is found and somebody is injured or killed, the customer, survivors, and insurance companies in their name will sue the one with the deepest pockets. As an example, if we find something that looks really neat designed and built by a somebody owning a small shop and decide to buy from them and have it as standard equipment or an option and it fails, the person injured will not sue the small company. They go after the deepest pockets. I've been involved in suits where the family of the person killed sued everybody (backed by an insurance company who did the legwork) from the OEM to the dealer to the company he worked for to his crew members. So you need to figure out the demand, cost, selling price, and reliability. Then there are customer expectations. Example - as a large OEM, we supplied one of our machines to a small company, painted in their color and branded with their name. We paid all of their warranty claims. Their identical product received 10% of the claims we did. Customer expectations from us vs the small manufacturer combined with what the company would allow under warranty. Something talked about above, beyond the turnbuckle adjust, is having Top and Tilt. Cost to a customer - 2 remotes, 2 hydraulic cylinders, and plumbing. What if the majority of customers used only the drawbar or a single implement on the 3 point? Having Top and Tilt standard has just priced you out of many customer's range. As for companies listening - Kubota didn't supply an air seat on their Grand L 40's. The 60's have it as an option. Did the option come due to 4Shorts who documented his modification needed to install an air suspension seat on his L5740 or was it through other input? Never know but it happened and I replaced my L5740 with an air suspension equipped L6060. It is still a rough riding beast. Yesterday I hauled a load of brush to our burn pile with our M7-171 and had my wife drive our L6060 with loader and grapple so I could use it to stack. When we got back she told me she never wanted to drive that bucking bronco on the road again (it's spring breakup time in Minnesota). Not my problem she doesn't want to drive the M7.

No idea as to your engineering expertise, but you should have spent more time in English 101 learning proper sentence and paragraph structuring. Your post is just a bunch of gobbledegoop. If you would stick in a space now and then and make short paragraphs out of your dissertation, it would be much more digestible and probably more readers would follow along with you.

 

[MessickFarmEqu]

I also check Wengers, Hoobers, Atlantic, Deere Country, Binkley(though I tend to forget they exist for some reason), and Valley Ag. Web shopping for tractors is a hobby I acquired when I was first needing one, and I've never really stopped.

we're spoiled in our area. There are lots of good dealers here, that's part of what's driven our level of customer service to such heights... its required to stand out. A lot of people come to us from long, long distances away because the standard of service in their area is so much lower.