Buying Advice Done with hydrostatics

[daugen]

I have always wondered why we can't get a tractor with hydrostatic bigger than 70hp.
Has to be a reason, perhaps efficiency?
Long jump up to IVT...
For loader work I find the hydro trans super helpful.

 

[daugen]

The absolute lowest end Deere is the X370 with the K57 transaxle . The X380 and up has a even more robust K58 transaxle.
Anything below a X380 is just a daisy cutter for a retired Aunt Mildred to use for 100 hours on a flat city lawn .
TractorData.com John Deere X38 tractor transmission information

it would be great to have someone who works on these things report on the various models, really seem to be dominated by two companies, plus Eaton in commercial. The comments first look at the transaxle seems spot on.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

I always like to buy new, but if I were buying a mower, I would buy used (pre-2010 or so). I believe quality is way down on these machines.

 

[majorwager]

Rock Crawler just posted a thread recently that examines two high end lawn/garden tractor transmissions. See " Cub Cadet XT3 GSX or Husqvarna TS354XD? " in the lawn and garden forum. Well explained. I, for one, see NO deficiency in the current XT3, shaft drive, power steering, size, weight, 60 inch fabricated deck now available, 2018, show me the quality deficiency????

 

[prof fate]

everyone says newer is crap..is it?
Depends...
I had a 2002 sear tractor..crap. But then they offered 3 lines and I had the lowest level model...
neghbor just sold a high end sears model from about '16..never worked right. He's still using his old wheel horse. THEY made good stuff.

Cub Cadet has made all kinds of stuff..good mostly but some crap too.

Back in the 60s we had a cub for years, then a borrowed allis chalmers..boy i wanted it, but dad got an AMF..crap. Neighbor had a sears mower...for longer than we had those 3.

Problem is too many retailers have stressed 'low prices always' and such that folks have drilled into their psyche to buy cheap. So companies have to compete on price.

I just bought a used bush hog brush hog. Prices on new ones are $1500-2000 these days. Guess what? The one I got came with the original sales invoice -December 14, 1989 it sold new for $1750.

So 30 years later they cost the same. Inflation? NOTHING costs what it did 30 years ago...so what's the secret to keeping costs the same?

It HAS to be made cheaper...

I always like to buy new, but if I were buying a mower, I would buy used (pre-2010 or so). I believe quality is way down on these machines.

 

[Industrial Toys]

Well off shore labor rates figure into the low prices for sure.

The problem is, that consumer items can be made very cheaply that almost exactly resemble the high quality version. Add some extra BLING (costs nothing) a low price and it's open season on the suckers!

I had trouble taking off a battery clamp yesterday. I remembered I had a brand new puller for this purpose. I found it and attempted to use it. The cheap casting of the tool broke in two! You think you have something, and you might as well have thrown your money in the garbage.

 

[k0ua]

Well off shore labor rates figure into the low prices for sure.

The problem is, that consumer items can be made very cheaply that almost exactly resemble the high quality version. Add some extra BLING (costs nothing) a low price and it's open season on the suckers!

I had trouble taking off a battery clamp yesterday. I remembered I had a brand new puller for this purpose. I found it and attempted to use it. The cheap casting of the tool broke in two! You think you have something, and you might as well have thrown your money in the garbage.

Was it from "horrible freight? If so... well... what can I say? Buyer beware?

If it said Klien or Channel Lock or even Stanley on it, then that is another story.

 

[Industrial Toys]

I have been thinking about that. That tool was never meant to serve any purpose as a tool. And yet someone created the tooling, and went through the bother of creating and marketing that thing. Just to make a buck. Actually, I don't even know where I got it.

I saw a documentary on lying last night. Apparently we are lied to between 10 and 200 times a day on average. They say much of lying is a cooperative effort.

And it's not just humans. Coco (sp?) the (sign language) Guerilla when asked how a sink got torn from the wall, pointed the finger at his pet kitten!

 

[cabinhollow]

I have always wondered why we can't get a tractor with hydrostatic bigger than 70hp.
Has to be a reason, perhaps efficiency?
Long jump up to IVT...
For loader work I find the hydro trans super helpful.

My 135 hp Uni has a hydrostatic drive that still works after 35+ years.

 

[daugen]

My 135 hp Uni has a hydrostatic drive that still works after 35+ years.

I had to look that up.
Maybe they figured the drag in a harvester wasn't too high, mostly hp needed for operation
I think some of the older IH tractors had larger hydros too.

 

[VroomVroom]

I know little about this stuff. Especially tractors. But I worked on a wood harvestor for a couple years. Alot of the logging equipment is hydrostatic. Big industrial machines with hundreds of hp.

 

[Texasmark]

The problem with the K46 transmission is there is no oil filtration and not even any feasible way to change the oil. No drain plug on this non serviceable transmission. So it just chews itself up from its own metal particles.

There is a rubber plug on the top whereby oil can be sucked out and replaced. Thicker oil seems to be the word from TT. There is a very fine mesh filter screen inside the oil section, in the top of the unit.....about 2" diameter, 1" high.

 

[cabinhollow]

I had to look that up.
Maybe they figured the drag in a harvester wasn't too high, mostly hp needed for operation
I think some of the older IH tractors had larger hydros too.

With a 300bu wagon behind it, it is pulling 15000 lbs + and here we farm hills.

 

[LouNY]

IH made several models with hydro trans in them and I'm don't know all of them but the smaller that I can think of was the 544 and going up from there the Hydro 100's and 1026. They were excellent tractors for PTO and light draft work, cultivating, planting, spraying and such, they where decent for forage chopping and baling. They loved fuel, made quite a bit noise (whine) and had some durability problems when pulled hard. A hydro rebuild will cost a lot more then a clutch replacement and the install and adjustment are more complicated then a clutch and TA.

 

[4570Man]

I used to have a little HSTCase tractor that was size equivalent to my B7200. I wish still had that machine. It was better than my B7200 and that’s setting the bar pretty high.

 

[Bavarian]

I have always wondered why we can't get a tractor with hydrostatic bigger than 70hp.
Has to be a reason, perhaps efficiency?
Long jump up to IVT...
For loader work I find the hydro trans super helpful.

500 hp is what I know so far on an actual tractor. Look up Fendt 1050 Vario.

 

[ArlyA]

hydro transmissions have some terrible efficiency ratios. In the range of 15 to 30% losses depending on where in the power range they are being operated. I recall a conversation I had years ago with a mechanic who worked at a GE shop who serviced motor/generator haul trucks. He said at 35 or below tonnage they'd still use geared transmission because they were so darn efficient, electric/hauls couldn't compete with them.

 

[GirlWhoWantsTractor]

hydro transmissions have some terrible efficiency ratios. In the range of 15 to 30% losses depending on where in the power range they are being operated. I recall a conversation I had years ago with a mechanic who worked at a GE shop who serviced motor/generator haul trucks. He said at 35 or below tonnage they'd still use geared transmission because they were so darn efficient, electric/hauls couldn't compete with them.

I remember when manual transmissions were faster in cars. Now apparently the tranny is smarter than we are.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

There is a rubber plug on the top whereby oil can be sucked out and replaced. Thicker oil seems to be the word from TT. There is a very fine mesh filter screen inside the oil section, in the top of the unit.....about 2" diameter, 1" high.

Here is inside of my k46. I had to replace a broken axle. Has internal filter before the pump. Also has 2 magnets next to filter, another magnet near the axle gear. They had a little crud, but not too bad for 10 yrs.
The old oil didnt look bad either.

 

[daugen]

500 hp is what I know so far on an actual tractor. Look up Fendt 1050 Vario.

Is that hydrostatic or IVT? I thought everything over 100hp was IVT, but I am sure no transmission expert.
Hydrostatic is easy to use, foot treadles eliminate need to use left arm/hand on reverser. Don't understand why someone hasn't
come up with hydro functionality and high efficiency too. The transmissions in our cars and trucks have become super efficient, up to 10 speeds now. But we seem stuck at a three speed hydro. 3 speeds work nicely for me, btw. I use all three, from tilling and loader work to running down the road in high. Now if they could shut up the whine...……..

Yes, heavy equipment has hydros all over the place and the really heavy stuff now seems to be going diesel electric.
But to the best of my knowledge, JD at 66hp(is it up to 70 now?) in a four series is the most you can get.
Why not a hydro option in a 5? Or a Kubota M?

I have a "one speed" variable hydro on my 1968 Cub Cadet. They've come a long way...