Power loss with age on Hydro stat

[VroomVroom]

Just curious has anyone had any noticeable power loss on pulling power or pto power on the hydrostatic tractors. I heard people say they lose power as they wear with age due to leakage etc.

 

[jeff9366]

I have owned two HST tractors. Dealer performs service on factory recommended schedule.
I have never noticed HST power transmission fade.

 

[VroomVroom]

Yes. Just wondering I suppose. As they say the engine is good for x amount of hours if fluids changed regularly etc. Just wondering what the transmission or even the other hydraulics how they will wear as their life goes on providing clean oils and normal use.

 

[MossRoad]

I had a late 70's IH2500b gas engined 50pto HP tractor loader with the HST. It had well over 4000 hours on it when we bought it around 1989. It was about an 8000# machine with full cab and filled tires. I put a couple thousand more hours on it. I could put the bucket up high against a 10" tree and pretty much drive over the tree. I did notice it felt kind of weak shortly after we bought it. I had it serviced and the filters and screens changed/cleaned, etc... and it was like a new beast. With that said, we didn't own it since new, so I have no "as new" experience to compare it to, only the difference from before and after filters and screens serviced.

On that machine, the HST was the strongest part. The gas engine was pretty good, too, but I did have to get the gear welded back onto the distributor shaft, the cast iron mount for the steering cylinder snapped off, someone had replaced the original FEL lift cylinders with much larger cylinders and they leaked at the seals, one of the front wheel hubs disintegrated, and I had to replace the fuel cutoff solenoid at the carb bowl twice in 10 years. So, in my opinion, on that machine, the HST was the least of my worries.

 

[VroomVroom]

I had a late 70's IH2500b gas engined 50pto HP tractor loader with the HST. It had well over 4000 hours on it when we bought it around 1989. It was about an 8000# machine with full cab and filled tires. I put a couple thousand more hours on it. I could put the bucket up high against a 10" tree and pretty much drive over the tree. I did notice it felt kind of weak shortly after we bought it. I had it serviced and the filters and screens changed/cleaned, etc... and it was like a new beast. With that said, we didn't own it since new, so I have no "as new" experience to compare it to, only the difference from before and after filters and screens serviced.

On that machine, the HST was the strongest part. The gas engine was pretty good, too, but I did have to get the gear welded back onto the distributor shaft, the cast iron mount for the steering cylinder snapped off, someone had replaced the original FEL lift cylinders with much larger cylinders and they leaked at the seals, one of the front wheel hubs disintegrated, and I had to replace the fuel cutoff solenoid at the carb bowl twice in 10 years. So, in my opinion, on that machine, the HST was the least of my worries.

Ha. Some of these tractors work hard. I almost feel bad for them. Yeah it’s just that you hear of the power loss vs geared tractors but I actually never talked to someone who directly experienced it. And if so would you even notice it

 

[MossRoad]

Ha. Some of these tractors work hard. I almost feel bad for them. Yeah it痴 just that you hear of the power loss vs geared tractors but I actually never talked to someone who directly experienced it. And if so would you even notice it

It's a confusing mess that people get overly concerned with. Yes, if you put a 25hp engine in front of a geared transmission, it will deliver more power to the wheels and PTO, etc... than an HST transmission on that same engine due to losses in fluid transmission VS gear transmission of power. And, there can be a loss of power if the HST fluid gets overheated. That is a real thing that can happen if, for example, the hydraulic cooler gets plugged, the filters get plugged, the screens get plugged, the operator runs the engine at too low of an RPM in an attempt to save fuel, which causes too low of a flow through the cooler, or the system is designed poorly, etc... My IH2500b had specific operator instructions on how to deal with those issues in the operator's manual.

However, if you buy an HST tractor rated at 25 pto hp, it's going to deliver 25 pto hp. It may have a larger hp engine to do that, but it will do that. You should focus on the specifications that you want from the PTO or drawbar pulling power forward, not from the engine hp backwards, and get a tractor that meets your needs.

Focus on what you want out of the machine's PTO, and its drawbar pulling power, and purchase a machine rated for those specs and it will deliver those specs.

Don't get hung up on the "power loss" soap boxers. It's misdirection, non-issue, and red herring all rolled into one. Get a machine spec'd to do the tasks you need it to do, and it will do those tasks.

Here's a link to help estimate what you can expect for drawbar power from a given PTO power, known engine power, etc....

Agricultural Machinery Management (ACIS)

 

[JerryK]

EXCELLENT POST.... !!!! [ for an old decrepit guy.... ] [ sticky worthy even ]

 

[MossRoad]

Hey! I feel like I'm 34. :laughing:

 

[k0ua]

Hey! I feel like I'm 34. :laughing:

I am betting that 34 ship sailed a while ago. :laughing:

 

[JerryK]

I am betting that 34 ship sailed a while ago. :laughing:

I'm stuck on 12. And my wife used to remind me of it ALL THE TIME....

 

[MossRoad]

I am betting that 34 ship sailed a while ago. :laughing:

Yeah, about 23 years ago. But I do feel great physically, and quite childish mentally. I can't complain. I can still run up 5 flights of stairs two at a time, average about 7-8 miles a day of activity, swim non-stop for an hour if I want to, etc... so knock on wood, I'll take it and be thankful!

My wife is on weight watchers (doing great, down to her teenager weight), and she gets 23 points a day. We added mine up, and I eat about 160+ points a day! YIKES!! That's about 8 times her allotment. But I guess I burn it off. :confused3:

 

[oldnslo]

Just curious has anyone had any noticeable power loss on pulling power or pto power on the hydrostatic tractors. I heard people say they lose power as they wear with age due to leakage etc.

Simple answer is yes, with age these will lose efficiency / power. The unknown factor is will it be enough to be noticeable. I have been told that it takes somewhere between 5 & 10% change in speed for the average operator to notice anything wrong.

 

[VroomVroom]

good way to tell I suppose is get some gym weights of known quanity and lift it when the tractor is new. Do the same test in 5 to ten years I suppose.

 

[davrow]

Simple answer is yes, with age these will lose efficiency / power. The unknown factor is will it be enough to be noticeable. I have been told that it takes somewhere between 5 & 10% change in speed for the average operator to notice anything wrong.

Vroom Vroom and oldnslo, this is the first I have ever heard of such a suggestion. Sounds like Internet lore to me.

I think my tractor will be a pile of rust in the south 40 before any HST changes could be noticed, barring total pump failure.

 

[davrow]

good way to tell I suppose is get some gym weights of known quanity and lift it when the tractor is new. Do the same test in 5 to ten years I suppose.

Vroom Vroom, you are muddying the waters. Loader is not part of the HST. Loader on gear and HST are identical, so will age identically.

 

[wmonroe]

My dad has a B8200 HST that is approximately 32 years old. It has either 3600 or 4600 hours on it (only a 3 digit hour meter). The HST does not seem any noticeably weaker. The engine does seem to not put out as much power but that is most likely due to the valves needing adjusted (never done), original injection pump, and injectors with a couple thousand hours on them.

 

[VroomVroom]

Thats good to know wmonroe. Davrow, Honestly I don't know. Just curious of it really. If after 10 years of use will it become weaker in its hydraulics in general, weather its the transmission for pulling or lifting. From What wmonroe is saying, sounds all good. I know we used the machines in cutting pulp, most logging equipment we had were hydrostatic and they went 24/7. I'm not sure now how many hours were on some of it but it had to be in the thousands. Seemed like we'd run the harvester 2 or 3 years, so that would be tens of thousands before they'd sell it. It would be shut down only in the soft muddy spring, and for some maintenance but generally ran flat out. A personal tractor though the owner is going to be a little more picky and probably pick up on power loss if there ever was any. Good to know others had them for thousands of hours with no ill effect.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Will the tractors hydro get weaker with age? There's no doubt it will, BUT I bet it won't be enough for most owners to even notice.

I have seen hydro dozers get weaker with age, and it was noticeable, but they do more "hard" work in a day, than a small tractor does in years of use...

SR