Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review

   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review #41  
Hello Terry,

How close are you to the Georgia border?

My only other thought is to call IFE and have them ship you 4 Parker metric needle valves and the metric 90 degree fittings and the Pipe to Pipe fittings you need to mount the 4 needle valves on the cylinders.

It would make things simpler for you if you could talk to the IFE folks and ask them to call Cross and tell them what you need for your mower and they could ship it to you from one of their sales offices.

After you remove the restrictor's and install the 4 needle valves and set the flow rate and lock it at 1 gallon per minute you will not have issues with the erratic control that you are concerned about.

If you decide to do this just be sure to use a paste thread sealant one thread back from the end of the fittings and not teflon tape as the tape can get stuck in the control surfaces of the needle valves.

I am sorry I am not closer to you to help with this.
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review
  • Thread Starter
#42  
How close are you to the Georgia border?

Three and a half hours, if you consider Dillard, in the mountains of northeast corner to be in Georgia. Why do you ask?

[Quote[My only other thought is to call IFE and have them ship you 4 Parker metric needle valves and the metric 90 degree fittings and the Pipe to Pipe fittings you need to mount the 4 needle valves on the cylinders.

It would make things simpler for you if you could talk to the IFE folks and ask them to call Cross and tell them what you need for your mower and they could ship it to you from one of their sales offices.[/QUOTE]

I'm not sure mounting them on the cylinders is the best solution. Some of the hoses have 90 degree ends, and other have pressure relief valves. I'm thinking it might be easier to mount them on the other end of the hose, at the quick-connects. Any reason that won't work? In that case I don't know that I need metric threads, but I'm not sure about that.

I seems these are one-way valves. Are there not valves that restrict in both directions?

Also removing the current orifices is an issue because I'd need to figure out how to make up that connection without them.

I haven't tried yet to disassemble them to figure out what the current orifice size is as Aaron suggested.
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review #43  
This is adjustable:

1/4 NPT 5 GPM Prince WNV-4 Needle Valve | Flow Control Valves | Hydraulic Valves | Hydraulics | www.surpluscenter.com

I don't see any problem with putting it on the tractor end of the hose. It's probably less likely to accidentally turned there. You only need one per cylinder. I'd put it on the head end fitting as that side sees more flow than the rod end (for cylinders with the rod on one end. If you have some with the rod out both ends like are used on side shifting flails it doesn't matter).
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review #44  
Hello Terry,

Read this first:


Before you go any further; Please call Iowa Farm Equipment and ask to speak to someone in the shop about your flail mower. You may have an over center control valve on the rod end of the cylinder port.

You may have an over center control valve that just needs to be adjusted.

I suggest this sincerely as you have an implement that by its nature creates an extended over center load that needs finite control in movement like the boom on a utility bucket truck. The over center control valve would be a large machined block mounted on the rod end of the cylinder.

They should have a hydraulic schematic for this flail mower in their service manuals and they can tell you how to adjust it correctly if the over center control valve is end user adjustable. I can send an e-mail to Peruzzo and ask them too. You may have a bad valve as a valve like this only meters oil slowly in both directions to assure that the boom does not move fast in either direction at any elevation or extension.


======================================================================

1. I was not sure if trip across the border to Georgia to a Cross/Parker sales office there would be efficient that is why I asked.
2. Mounting the needle valves on the cylinder ports is fine as long as you have the clearance to do it all it would require is the correct 90 degree male female fitting for the metric threads on the cylinder port and the pipe thread of the needle valves.
3. you can purchase 2 way flow control valves that have adjustable regulated flow on both the retract and extend functions from several manufacturers but the cross folks would be the best bet for you as they are in state.
4. About the orifices; Terry I would rather see you take the cylinders and hoses intact to a Cross Hose sales office and let them take care of it for you only because they will know what to do for you to set it up right.
With the disconnects on the hose ends you will have a fluid tight connection that will not leak and they will be able to inspect everything and install the valves in one of their shops for you.

If you decide to go to a Cross Hose office;

Call them and ask to speak to someone in their sales office that is very familiar with parker needle valves
and spend time on the phone telling them about your Italian flail mower and how you have it plumbed in your front end loader circuit and explain to them what you are experiencing with the jerky control issues.

Fax all the information about your flail mower to this office or mail it to the attention of this specific person and remind them that you would like to bring the complete hoses and the cylinders intact to their office so that you can obtain the correct control valves. They will have a test bench there to test the assembly when it is put together on their hydraulic work bench

They may have the Metric to National Pipe Thread hydraulic fittings there or in another Cross Hose office so they can use an National Pipe Thread control valve of the proper type to save time and money for you.


Leon








========================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================================
Three and a half hours, if you consider Dillard, in the mountains of northeast corner to be in Georgia. Why do you ask?

[Quote[My only other thought is to call IFE and have them ship you 4 Parker metric needle valves and the metric 90 degree fittings and the Pipe to Pipe fittings you need to mount the 4 needle valves on the cylinders.

It would make things simpler for you if you could talk to the IFE folks and ask them to call Cross and tell them what you need for your mower and they could ship it to you from one of their sales offices.

I'm not sure mounting them on the cylinders is the best solution. Some of the hoses have 90 degree ends, and other have pressure relief valves. I'm thinking it might be easier to mount them on the other end of the hose, at the quick-connects. Any reason that won't work? In that case I don't know that I need metric threads, but I'm not sure about that.

I seems these are one-way valves. Are there not valves that restrict in both directions?

Also removing the current orifices is an issue because I'd need to figure out how to make up that connection without them.

I haven't tried yet to disassemble them to figure out what the current orifice size is as Aaron suggested.[/QUOTE]
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review
  • Thread Starter
#45  
Thanks Eric and Leon.

I got down to the mower this morning to understand what I actually have, and to take some photos. Here's what I found. First, the cylinder that raises and lowers the outboard end of the mower:
mower-lift-cylinder.jpg

What's that thing on the rod end of the cylinder? Is that the over center control valve you wrote about, Leon? It doesn't look like any of the photos of them I find online.

Here's two photos of the other cylinder, the one that swings the mower in and out:
mower-swing-cylinder.jpg mower-swing-cylinder-2.jpg

It's hard to see because the hose from the other cylinder is in the way, but there's a bypass arrangement there that limits the force applied. It keeps the mower from swinging when there's too much resistance.

In any case, I'm not thinking that I want to plumb in a needle valve in either of those.

Here's the other end of the hose:
mower-hose-end.jpg

This seems a little cleaner to get at, but I don't know what the threads are on all those fittings, so I'd have to figure that out to get the right connecting adapters how to plumb in a valve.

Leon suggested I should remove the orifices if I add needle valves. Doing that introduces another set of adapter challenges. The dealer added extension hoses to reach from the factory hoses to my FEL connectors. They used three fittings, including one with the orifice, to connect them:
fittings-2.jpg fittings-3.jpg IMG_0134.jpg

If I removed the orifices I need to find a way to replace that connection.

Any thoughts welcome
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review #46  
No need to remove the existing orifices- they flow more than you want now. You could drill them out if you wanted but I don't think they'll be a problem.

You can put the valves between the quick connect and the elbow or on the other side of the elbow. Where you put it would depend on how it fits on the tractor. The threads are most likely common size and form for hydraulic parts. Discounthydraulichose has a nice guide: https://www.discounthydraulichose.com/v/vspfiles/downloadables/thread_guide.pdf

Quick connects used on CUTS are usually 1/2" NPT. The fitting on the other side of the elbow looks like it could be JIC or NPSM. If you're not comfortable figuring it out yourself then you bring the parts to a hydraulic hose & parts store. The fittings will cost a little more there than at discount or surplus but you'll get the right parts. You'll need adaptors to go down to 1/4" NPT female for the valves.

Don't use teflon tape as it can get in the hydraulic system if you're not careful. I like the LocTite 545 sealant made for hydraulic fittings. NPT threads need some sort of sealant- they're not the best fitting for hydraulics but that's what a lot of parts have. I use adaptors to JIC and use that for everything else. NPSM would be good too.
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review
  • Thread Starter
#47  
Thanks, Eric,

I see what I need now. I just need to open that joint and be sure what the threads are.

Do I need to worry about the pressure rating of the fittings? Looking at what I think I need on Surplus I see them rated at 3000 psi, and I have no clue what my system develops.
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review #48  
3000psi hydraulic fittings should be fine. CUTs generally have their relief valves set in the 2200+- 100 range.
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review #49  
Hello and good evening Terry,

You have a bunch of banjo hydraulic fittings with sacrificial copper gaskets that let you adjust the hoses/fittings to let them sweep properly without becoming tangled when they are connected. The copper gasket type hydraulic fittings are just another way to install hoses and fittings in close quarters like the BSP hydraulic fittings/mating surfaces and threads that use the blue dot o-rings and steel compression washers to hold them in place.

The valve block that is attached to the banjo fittings is a flow control/metering valve I believe. The least little bit of dirt or foreign particle in the control surface can make it operate in an erratic manner. We had that happen quite often on our old roof drills a lot where the feed controls had a piece of piston packing break and jamb in the orifice hole for controlling the differential feed cylinder for the drill head.

Your mower manual should have a hydraulic schematic showing everything that operates the mower.

If you have time tomorrow please call the IFE folks and ask to speak to someone in the shop and tell them you are having trouble with the finite control of your mower and ask about the this valve to find out exactly what valve it is and ask if a piece of debris could get in there and cause it to operate poorly.

If anything you will need the copper banjo gaskets anyway to allow you to remove the cartridge and check for debris and reinstall it with the new gasket as the old ones cannot be used more than once.
 
   / Peruzzo Fox Cross 1600 Ditch & Bank Mower Review #50  
Hello and good evening Terry,

You have a bunch of banjo hydraulic fittings with sacrificial copper gaskets that let you adjust the hoses/fittings to let them sweep properly without becoming tangled when they are connected. The copper gasket type hydraulic fittings are just another way to install hoses and fittings in close quarters like the BSP hydraulic fittings/mating surfaces and threads that use the blue dot o-rings and steel compression washers to hold them in place.

The valve block that is attached to the banjo fittings is a metering valve I believe. The least little bit of dirt or foreign particle in the control surface can make it operate in an erratic manner.

Your mower manual should have a hydraulic schematic showing everything that operates the mower.

If you have time tomorrow please call the IFE folks and ask to speak to someone in the shop and tell them you are having trouble with the finite control of your mower and ask about the this valve to find out exactly what valve it is and ask if a piece of debris could get in there and cause it to operate poorly.

If anything you will need the copper banjo gaskets anyway to allow you to remove the cartridge and check for debris and reinstall it with the new gasket as the old ones cannot be used more than once.
 
 

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