to flux or not to flux?

[W8BYA]

I love to stick weld (use an old AC buzz box) and use oxi-acetylene as well but have been thinking of getting a MIG welder. I did some MIG using external Argon tanks MANY years ago when in HS when I first learned how to weld and have wondered from those who have tried both if the gasless MIG's that use coated flux wire work as well as "bare" wire and a stream of gas? Pro's Cons, etc, etc Tnx !

 

[ericm979]

As a beginner with only some welding in school I found flux core harder to use and the welds not nearly as good as mig. Maybe someone with lots of stick experience could do better with flux core. Flux core wire is more expensive than mig wire so that eats up some of the cost savings vs mig. Other than the cost of gas I don't see a downside to mig.

 

[W8BYA]

As a beginner with only some welding in school I found flux core harder to use and the welds not nearly as good as mig. Maybe someone with lots of stick experience could do better with flux core. Flux core wire is more expensive than mig wire so that eats up some of the cost savings vs mig. Other than the cost of gas I don't see a downside to mig.

Thanks Eric I appreciate your experiences with both. My main interest is to weld better in other than flat-down or mostly horizontal type welding or thinner metals.

My vertical up's & down's etc suck LOL. Horizontal welding I can do well enough and I know with some proper training & experience (and proper choice of rod) I could do much better.....it's just so darn easy & fast to weld in almost any position with MIG. It would be nice to have a "MIG" welder w/o having to maintain another huge tank of gas if the flux coated wire works as well.

 

[WranglerX]

I have a Hobart Handler 140, but sort of immaterial to my response....

Started out with fluxcore (FCAW) and when demo roll was used up I went and got a full roll (2 lb.) of fluxcore....Somewhere along the way I decided to hook up a cylinder of C25 and switch to solid wire and shield gas (GMAW).... About 10 small rolls (2 lb.) of solid wire later I have never gone back to fluxcore...

I love GMAW.... Point here is if going MIG get a machine that will do both because there is actually some situations where FCAW actually is better (really dirty material or in slight breeze), but all my work lately has been all GMAW....

I also find out of for position MIG is better for me than I was ever with stick...

Good site to answer questions inquiring minds want to know...

Welding Tips and Tricks - TIG, MIG, Stick and a pantload of other info

Also if you get a MIG machine some manufacturers have forums for internation with other elders with dam brand products and with hteir tech support people....

Hobart site....

Forums -

Weld Talk Message Boards

Dale

 

[W8BYA]

I have a Hobart Handler 140, but sort of immaterial to my response....

Started out with fluxcore (FCAW) and when demo roll was used up I went and got a full roll of fluxcore....Somewhere along the way I decided to hook up a cylinder of C25 and switch to solid wire and shield gas (GMAW).... About 10 small rolls ( 2 lb.) of solid wire later I have never gone back to fluxcore...

I love GMAW.... Point here is if going MIG get a machine that will do both because the is actually some situations where FCAW actually is better(really dirty material or in slight breeze), but all my work lately has been all GMAW....

Dale

Hiya Dale and thank you for the great info & advice. Ehhhh, got 2 big tanks already what's one more? <g>.

Somewhat off topic from my original post but am wondering if you think MIG can be used for steel up to say 3/8" thickness? That is about the thickest metal I can see myself welding, like when I just welded on hooks to this 3/8" plate steel. If so what current rating machine & wire diameter would be appropriate or needed?

 

[jaxs]

There is no" single best" process,but there are best processes for various jobs,skill level,expense and any number of other considerations. If majority of projects are 1/8" or less,gas shielded is a good choice. On the other hand many homeowner machines handle either process but will weld thicker running flux core. Then of course there's the question of welding outdoors where flux core get's the nod.

 

[Oldoak]

Then of course there's the question of welding outdoors where flux core get's the nod.

Definitely. The gas cover can be blown away by a breeze and play havoc with the weld.

 

[otlski]

MIG pros > easier to learn, nicer looking welds, less slag
MIG cons > not good outdoors when windy, have to refill tanks
Flux Core pros > no gas to refill, better for vertical welds
Flux Core cons > more slag, welds not as smooth looking

I stopped using MIG when the large corporation gas refillers bought out out the local guys. That, and regulations made it hard to refill. In my case a local refiller exchanged my personally owned (new) tank with a filled older tank, promising to keep track of it. They sold to large corp and "my" tank was forever gone. Then, after inheriting a large tank from my FIL, no company would refill it without testing and recerts - FIL had no such issues.

 

[W8BYA]

MIG pros > easier to learn, nicer looking welds, less slag
MIG cons > not good outdoors when windy, have to refill tanks
Flux Core pros > no gas to refill, better for vertical welds
Flux Core cons > more slag, welds not as smooth looking

I stopped using MIG when the large corporation gas refillers bought out out the local guys. That, and regulations made it hard to refill. In my case a local refiller exchanged my personally owned (new) tank with a filled older tank, promising to keep track of it. They sold to large corp and "my" tank was forever gone. Then, after inheriting a large tank from my FIL, no company would refill it without testing and recerts - FIL had no such issues.

Wow you just hit on a couple of very, very interesting points. The 1st was when you said "Flux Core pros > no gas to refill, better for vertical welds". I would have guessed no flux and gas would be best for clean deep vertical welds.

But what you said later REALLY got my attention. About 12 years ago I purchased my own tanks from a large supplier in Ft Wayne. Anytime I needed them refilled the owner (who remembered me) would simply document the tank numbers and give me a different pair of tanks that were mine to own also. What has me petrified is when they go dry and I need to refill them because he sold out to a super large nationwide supplier who when I called said they purged all prior records etc. I think they just bought the ole guy out to eliminate competition. So now I fear I may not be able to get my 2 tanks refilled :-(

 

[Tractor Seabee]

No one I know of around here fills tanks on their premises. You take in your empty and they give you a filled one. You will probably never see your original tank again. The empties are then sent to a central facility for refilling. At that point re-cert and valve replacements are done. I just had to pay a re-cert on an old O2 tank I bought at the auction. Way the business works. Luck of the draw when you get a tank that needs re-cert or you have it a long time (10 years I believe).

Ron

 

[W8BYA]

Hi Ron. Yup, what you said makes perfect sense. Everytime I would take my tanks in with the "ole" guy he would let me go out in the backyard and pick out two real nice newer looking ones to replace the two I just dropped off. No refilling was ever done there that I know of not to say they did not. Fingers are crossed when I take my "old" tanks in they don't give me a hard time.

 

[jaxs]

20 years ago there were more than two dozen welder's supplies within 30 miles of where I live. As population has grown, ws houses were sold then closed. Today two large companies operate seven places and not one privately owned place remains. It's next to impossible to deal with either company and when you succeed it will cost three prices.

 

[WranglerX]

I bought a set of small oxy & acet tanks back in 70's, have been exchanging them for years, never been challenged as to ownership, in fact could not even prove ownership of "tanks" as paperwork is long lost, but never been challenged, later purchase (about 6 years ago) of C25 tank for MIG machine, and paper work does not even record tank numbers it just states I have ownership of a 125 cu-ft tank.... Funny part about that is when I purchased tank, went to gas dock to pickup up tank, they were out of full 125 cu-ft tanks so dock jock gave me a 175 cu-ft, been exchanging the 175 ever since....

All I do is show up, and state what I need for tank refills and as I'm paying counter man, dock jock usually has my empties out of my truck and refills in place before I can get the check signed...

Its sad that cooperation have made the simple concepts so complicated when in the end all you want is a gas refill...

Dale

 

[millsan1]

MIG all the way. Flux works, but it is nowhere near the process and end results that MIG produces.

 

[dragoneggs]

... have been exchanging them for years, never been challenged as to ownership, in fact could not even prove ownership of "tanks" as paperwork is long lost, but never been challenged, later purchase (about 6 years ago) of C25 tank for MIG machine, and paper work does not even record tank numbers it just states I have ownership of a 125 cu-ft tank.... Funny part about that is when I purchased tank, went to gas dock to pickup up tank, they were out of full 125 cu-ft tanks so dock jock gave me a 175 cu-ft, been exchanging the 175 ever since....

All I do is show up, and state what I need for tank refills and as I'm paying counter man, dock jock usually has my empties out of my truck and refills in place before I can get the check signed...

Its sad that cooperation have made the simple concepts so complicated when in the end all you want is a gas refill...

Dale

Me either... show up... pay... and they unload/load the tank. Love it. Proof of ownership would be a challenge. Probably didn't throw away the receipt but it would be a buggar to find it now. I'm not good at documenting stuff like that.

 

[RandyT]

My oxy/acetylene set was purchased at a farm auction with the tanks 25 years ago with a companies name molded into the top of the tanks but no indication of a tank lease. Then the place the exchanged my tanks changed suppliers and so my tanks with one companies name molded into them got exchanged for a another companies tanks. So there is no chain of ownership, and no way to even track an original lease or purchase of the tanks at this point.

 

[newbury]

No one I know of around here fills tanks on their premises. You take in your empty and they give you a filled one. You will probably never see your original tank again. The empties are then sent to a central facility for refilling. At that point re-cert and valve replacements are done. I just had to pay a re-cert on an old O2 tank I bought at the auction. Way the business works. Luck of the draw when you get a tank that needs re-cert or you have it a long time (10 years I believe).

Ron

Whats the cost to recertify a tank?

 

[Texasmark]

I am a believer in flux....flux to rid the joint of contaminants. 25% argon gas like TSC sells works just fine for riding the joint of contaminants for me if you get it setup correctly and use it correctly....correctly defined as what it takes for YOU to get good joints. Highly preferred over flux cored wires which is where I started. Other thing is clean surfaces. Last, if welding thick material with .030 wire for example, way over the recommended thicknesses of materials, stay on the spot long enough to get it hot so that it'll adhere. Just because it looks like it flowed out like a "good solder joint looks" doesn't mean it took.

 

[Fallon]

Whats the cost to recertify a tank?

$10 when I exchanged my expired tank a year or so ago here at my local welding shop.

 

[dragoneggs]

$10 when I exchanged my expired tank a year or so ago here at my local welding shop.

No one ever looks at the stamped date upon refill. Never had to pay for a re-cert. Simple swap an empty for a full tank. I suppose it is baked in to the cost. The tank I owned is in someone else's shop. I imagine when tanks 'expire' they get pulled aside, re-cert'd and put back in the population.