My tractor just wouldn't start a few months ago, so I installed a new injection pump. I just can't seem to get it to run, which I assume is a timing issue. My tractor is a jimna 224 4x4, and I really need to get it up and running. If someone could walk me through the install process I would greatly appreciate it. My work on the farm is starting to really pile up.
Need help getting tractor to run after new injection pump install.
- Thread starter zukgod
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thepumpguysc
Elite Member
What did the place u got the pump from say??
Isnt the drive keyed.??
Isnt the drive keyed.??
ruffdog
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Do we know for sure that the pump was the original problem?
The drive is keyed, and Ruffdog I'm not sure the pump was the original problem at all at this point I'm lost. I have built hundreds of gasoline engines, and can't for the life of me get this one going. I've turned it over and watched all of the valves move so I don't think it's a stuck valve. I've tried putting some regular gas on a rag and putting it over the intake, and it will fire and sometimes run for 30 seconds and then die. I got it running once, and actually drove it for 20 feet but it had no power and then died. I had bad fuel in it that gelled up on me, so I drained the fuel system including lines and replaced the fuel with new. Is it possible that my injectors are plugged? When I crack open the 13mm lines on top of the injectors and crank it over fuel only dribbles out, and I'm not sure if it's supposed to have higher pressure there or not.
When this started I turned the tractor off one night, and went out to start it the next day and it simply wouldn't start. I really do appreciate any help you all might have here.
When this started I turned the tractor off one night, and went out to start it the next day and it simply wouldn't start. I really do appreciate any help you all might have here.
AllDodge
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Diesel injection pumps must be timed. Normally the pump has a place where a pin (of some sort) is inserted when the pump has been rotated to number one cylinder. The motor is rotated and another pin is inserted in the flywheel area. Once both are in position, then the pump is installed and pins are removed.
With only getting dribbles of fuel out the lines, I would start with the lift pump which pumps fuel to the injection pump. Look at banjo bolts to see if any of them have small screen filters inside
With only getting dribbles of fuel out the lines, I would start with the lift pump which pumps fuel to the injection pump. Look at banjo bolts to see if any of them have small screen filters inside
ruffdog
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This might help....more reading:
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/201419-jinma-will-not-start-how.html
https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/chinese-tractors/201419-jinma-will-not-start-how.html
AllDodge, I replaced all line screens, and filter. I can't speak to pins in the flywheel area, but did time the injection pump per instructions I found on this site. When I turn the pump by hand I will get fuel to come to the top of the #1 injector line, and then I put the timing wheel on in the correct position, but it still won't stay running.
Ruffdog, I read that thread and thank you, but I have already tried everything listed but will go through it all again right now and give it a try. How much fuel pressure should be at the top of the injectors? When I open one of the 13mm bolts on the top of the injectors I only get a dribble of fuel when cranking it over. I assumed that I should be getting a strong spurt of fuel on each rotation of the pump when turning it over with the starter. Off topic question are you on arfcom by any chance? You have the same screen name as a person on there.
Thanks guys, this thing has me going crazy as it's been down for 6 months now.
Harry in Ky
Veteran Member
While I don't care to offer advice on a tractor make/model I'm unfamiliar with, one thing about this thread puzzles me.
You have twice mentioned loosening 13mm "something" on top of the injectors. 13mm sounds pretty small for injector line nuts, so is it possible you're referring to return line banjo bolts? If so, that won't help you much in the bleeding process. Trying to bleed injector lines by cracking return lines could definitely lead to some frustration. I know it's just terminology, but in order to understand where you've been, where you're going, and what you're doing, people all need to be on the same page.
You have twice mentioned loosening 13mm "something" on top of the injectors. 13mm sounds pretty small for injector line nuts, so is it possible you're referring to return line banjo bolts? If so, that won't help you much in the bleeding process. Trying to bleed injector lines by cracking return lines could definitely lead to some frustration. I know it's just terminology, but in order to understand where you've been, where you're going, and what you're doing, people all need to be on the same page.
newbury
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This is one of the times when environment info may be helpful
And what are you using for fuel? Does it contain biodiesel and if so what %?
Did it gel up due to cold? Is it still that cold or colder? Have you tried Diesel 911? (Diesel 9•1•1 - Power Service)
And what are you using for fuel? Does it contain biodiesel and if so what %?
@Harry, you are 100% correct and if that's my problem I am going to be very embarrassed. That said sense I had it running would that not have bled the air out of the system when it ran? I am going to try to bleed it again first thing in the morning.
@Newbury, I am in Western Washington and it doesn't get terribly cold here. The fuel issue was a local station that got a bad batch of fuel, and had an announcement on their reader board about it, sure enough my fuel was pretty nasty. Edit, I did try the diesel 911 power service but will get another tomorrow.
I am excited to go out and try to bleed the system tomorrow and will update with what happens. In the meantime if anyone else has some idea's on things to try I'm open to listen.
I love this site, only wish I had more knowledge to pass along.
@Newbury, I am in Western Washington and it doesn't get terribly cold here. The fuel issue was a local station that got a bad batch of fuel, and had an announcement on their reader board about it, sure enough my fuel was pretty nasty. Edit, I did try the diesel 911 power service but will get another tomorrow.
I am excited to go out and try to bleed the system tomorrow and will update with what happens. In the meantime if anyone else has some idea's on things to try I'm open to listen.
I love this site, only wish I had more knowledge to pass along.
feasant
Bronze Member
how about a pic of your injector lines. is there a lift pump or electric pump that supplies the injector pump? make sure you have fuel to the suction side of the injector pump. you bleed by loosening the injector lines at the injector, not the return lines. as long as its timed right, has compression, air and fuel, no reason for it not to run. anything plugging the air intake?
AllDodge
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I'm also leaning toward bleeding, and it takes go good method to bleed and get all the air out. Each machine is different, and rotating the pump until fuel comes out of the pump can get it close, but may not be close enough, timing is critical. The diesel is difficult to find exact TDC on number one without some kind of reference. It will run off gas fumes because compression is good. Post some pics of what you have.
newbury
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Not a tractor BUT a 1988 7.3 Ford Powerstroke IDI. I replaced the fuel filter and some glow plugs and lost the fuel in the lines.
It took me what seemed like about a week of half hearted effort to get it restarted. I'd crack some lines and pump in 10 to 15 second spurts with a minute or so rest in between, Wear the battery down and recharge. I didn't have a charger that would turn the engine over. It was gonna cost like $300 for a tow and associated costs. But it worked
It took me what seemed like about a week of half hearted effort to get it restarted. I'd crack some lines and pump in 10 to 15 second spurts with a minute or so rest in between, Wear the battery down and recharge. I didn't have a charger that would turn the engine over. It was gonna cost like $300 for a tow and associated costs. But it worked
The reason I'm leaning towards another problem other than bleeding is that it ran and then simply wouldn't start. I then replaced the injection pump, and now it still won't run. So I don't know if I fixed the first problem or if I am still having the same problem. We're getting 1in of rain today and I have to work outside, so I'm not sure I can get out to bleed it today, but I sure want to, so we'll see what happens. I will also get some pictures for everyone, but if I'm honest I have been bleeding it wrong sense installing the injection pump so it may very well be just that.
I do however need to know how to time it correctly once I do get it started. I'm a bit concerned about running it very hard until I know it's timed right, not that it matters right now not running at all. When I do get it started it has no power, and will die after a couple of minutes, which is why I also thought something else was going on. In all of my other diesels, once you got it running it would force all of the air out of the system, so I assumed it would do the same with this mechanical injection system.
Thanks for the help everyone, I'm looking forward to having my tractor up and running again so I can get some work done here on the farm without breaking my back.
I do however need to know how to time it correctly once I do get it started. I'm a bit concerned about running it very hard until I know it's timed right, not that it matters right now not running at all. When I do get it started it has no power, and will die after a couple of minutes, which is why I also thought something else was going on. In all of my other diesels, once you got it running it would force all of the air out of the system, so I assumed it would do the same with this mechanical injection system.
Thanks for the help everyone, I'm looking forward to having my tractor up and running again so I can get some work done here on the farm without breaking my back.
thepumpguysc
Elite Member
Doesn't your inj. pump have a "hand primer" on the side of it??
Loosen the line that goes into the inj. pump.. pump the HP till u get fuel & tighten the line back up..
Loosen the LINES AT THE INJECTORS.. {the big steel lines that come from the pump}
NOW crank the engine until u get fuel squirting out of the lines at the injectors.. & tighten..
it should start..
You have the throttle WIDE OPEN, Yes??
The fuel IS turned on at the tank, Yes??
Its awful hard to mess-up the timing if the drive shaft is KEYED.. UNLESS you took the gear out.. OR moved the gear??
Loosen the line that goes into the inj. pump.. pump the HP till u get fuel & tighten the line back up..
Loosen the LINES AT THE INJECTORS.. {the big steel lines that come from the pump}
NOW crank the engine until u get fuel squirting out of the lines at the injectors.. & tighten..
it should start..
You have the throttle WIDE OPEN, Yes??
The fuel IS turned on at the tank, Yes??
Its awful hard to mess-up the timing if the drive shaft is KEYED.. UNLESS you took the gear out.. OR moved the gear??
ThePumpGuySC,
I have done all those things you mentioned, but the gear did come off when the pump was installed, and that's the issue I'm having. It's been raining like crazy here, and I have to work outside so once it stops in the next few days I will be getting back out and working on it. If anyone has any tips on getting the initial timing set up so I can get it close enough to run, and then adjust it correctly that would be great.
I have done all those things you mentioned, but the gear did come off when the pump was installed, and that's the issue I'm having. It's been raining like crazy here, and I have to work outside so once it stops in the next few days I will be getting back out and working on it. If anyone has any tips on getting the initial timing set up so I can get it close enough to run, and then adjust it correctly that would be great.
thepumpguysc
Elite Member
AAHHH, the plot thickens..
Is there any info on the valve cover or in your BOOK that tells the INJ. P. Timing.?? TDC, 15*, 25*.??
What u HAVE TO DO NOW is.. Find TDC on # 1 cyl.. U do that by either looking to see if there are any markings on your flywheel, a pointer on the front harmonic balancer..
IF none are found, you'll have to take off the valve cover & rotate the engine around until BOTH valves are closed..on #1 cyl.
THATS compression stroke #1 cyl..
U might get lucky & the PUMP gear is "marked" somehow.. a dot, a #.. a set of #'s..
A lot of manuf. use a SET of #'s side by side in the engine & 1 # on the pump drive gear.. so when the "set" comes up, all u have to do is put the "single#" between them..
Not to be rude but... seeing u didn't even know how to bleed the air.. chances are slim your gonna be able to do this..
Its prob. time to call in a pro. mechanic.??
Is there any info on the valve cover or in your BOOK that tells the INJ. P. Timing.?? TDC, 15*, 25*.??
What u HAVE TO DO NOW is.. Find TDC on # 1 cyl.. U do that by either looking to see if there are any markings on your flywheel, a pointer on the front harmonic balancer..
IF none are found, you'll have to take off the valve cover & rotate the engine around until BOTH valves are closed..on #1 cyl.
THATS compression stroke #1 cyl..
U might get lucky & the PUMP gear is "marked" somehow.. a dot, a #.. a set of #'s..
A lot of manuf. use a SET of #'s side by side in the engine & 1 # on the pump drive gear.. so when the "set" comes up, all u have to do is put the "single#" between them..
Not to be rude but... seeing u didn't even know how to bleed the air.. chances are slim your gonna be able to do this..
Its prob. time to call in a pro. mechanic.??
Bob Rooks
Elite Member
The plot hasn't thickened, as I already explained all of that stuff in the first couple of posts, as well as explaining that I already found those marks you talked about and moved the engine to TDC. You're not being rude at all my friend, you don't know me at all so I would assume what you did as well, that I know nothing about this type of thing. I do know how to bleed the system, but I have a couple of medical issues that make my brain rather foggy at times so I do overlook things that used to be very simple to me. The camshaft and the crank both have markings on the gears that are double zero's and then the injection pump has a single line that goes in between those two zero's at TDC. I'm pretty positive that I have that much correct. I simply haven't been able to get outside to work on it due to large amounts of rain over the past week. I will get back out hopefully tomorrow, and I will report back in with what I'm hoping is good news of a running tractor. I appreciate you and everyone else taking the time to try and help with this issue, that if I'm honest should have been a very easy fix. The injection pump itself took me less than an hour to remove and install, it's everything else that messed me up.
Thanks Bob, that helped quite a bit.
