Driverless Cars

[JasperFrank]

the exit to Issaquah Washington off of I90 backs up 3 miles on a bad day. You tell me how an autonomous car is going to deal with that? Its going to get in line also. So now the back up is 8 miles, and well beyond any sort of off ramp extra area of road. interfering with I5, which will shut down the whole freaken system.

 

[cqaigy2]

Couple of things on this post;
1) I feel safer at the gun range than just about anywhere else - everyone but EVERYONE knows the potential consequences of a mistake, so mistakes that COUNT are very very rare and people get CALLED OUT for ANY safety issue whether it is actually dangerous or not.
{BTW, that doesn't make me complacent about safety at the gun range.}

2) Driving to/from the gun range makes me a safer driver.
I have NO desire to be stopped for even the most trivial infraction.

3) Folk with enough DUIs sometimes only get a provisional license when they get it back.
Conditional on a breathalyzer ignition interlock.
I can see that coming as REQUIRED standard equipment ...one day.
It could do a LOT more for SAFETY than the blind spot warning bleeper.

4) Around here if you really want to tick people off drive *AT* the speed limit, they'll honk and flash until they can get around you and cut in hard.
A good place is just before a known speed trap, which happens to be where the double line just went away.

I agree to some of this, but have you look up at the ceiling of your gun range. :laughing:

 

[Reg]

I agree to some of this, but have you look up at the ceiling of your gun range. :laughing:

Yeah, those guys LEFT when the alcohol ban CAME, the damage is limited to the roof of the pistol range, nothing in the club house.
{pretty sure we haven't had such an incident since}
We don't miss them, but they missed us.

I blame TV and their depiction of how "Agents" (from government agencies with three letter acronyms) carry their weapons just before engagement.
We have a ban on "COWBOY STYLE" shooting from the hip too.

One of the trap houses has a scar that approximates a circle the size of a large human's torso - an eerie reminder that the E.R. would be able to do little/nothing for anyone hit by a 12Ga at ~50 ft.

Anyway, I still feel safer THERE for 1/2 or a whole day than I feel on the ROADS getting to/from there/home 15 miles each way, about an hour of risk exposure.

 

[Reg]

the exit to Issaquah Washington off of I90 backs up 3 miles on a bad day. You tell me how an autonomous car is going to deal with that? Its going to get in line also. So now the back up is 8 miles, and well beyond any sort of off ramp extra area of road. interfering with I5, which will shut down the whole freaken system.

Well, no.
Typically such back ups are because human controlled vehicles can't travel close to each other SAFELY, the reaction times are too long. Denser packing will lead to less back up, better negotiation of priority at the intersection that is at the end of that ramp will also decrease congestion.
Unless... unless that opportunity is spent to allow MORE cars on the road.

Yep, that denser traffic will be perceived as the "fault" of autonomous vehicles, but that is like blaming obesity on the availability of larger clothe sizes.

 

[Raspy]

I wonder how an autonomous car will deal with passing a slower vehicle on a two lane highway? How much below the speed limit will the self-driver allow before passing someone? And when it does, how does it look way down the road for traffic that is approaching? If it can't exceed the speed limit, passing times will be greatly increased. Before passing, will the auto car look back for other approaching passers? Seems like a very complicated addition to the driverless system programming. There will be objects moving in the same direction, stationary objects (like trees and stopped cars) and approaching objects that are far away and coming fast. Will the passing self drivers be allowed to speed temporarily? Or flow with traffic at speeds above the posted limit? This problem seems harder to fix than driving on a multi-lane freeway and the US has millions of miles of two lane roads.

We may see a long string of cars that are all speed governed by the slowest of the slow, where normally they would get passed.

 

[prof fate]

Yeah, those guys LEFT when the alcohol ban CAME, the damage is limited to the roof of the pistol range, nothing in the club house.
{pretty sure we haven't had such an incident since}
We don't miss them, but they missed us.

I blame TV and their depiction of how "Agents" (from government agencies with three letter acronyms) carry their weapons just before engagement.
We have a ban on "COWBOY STYLE" shooting from the hip too.

One of the trap houses has a scar that approximates a circle the size of a large human's torso - an eerie reminder that the E.R. would be able to do little/nothing for anyone hit by a 12Ga at ~50 ft.

Anyway, I still feel safer THERE for 1/2 or a whole day than I feel on the ROADS getting to/from there/home 15 miles each way, about an hour of risk exposure.

we have idiots our range - shooting 308 rifles off a bench at pistol steel 20 yards away...it pokes holes in it BTW.
Shooting up the sump pump in the indoor range - 10 holes in it...why?
Somebody brought a tv (old style) to the range and shot it up and left it...
No tracers...people shoot them.
No tannerite before 10 am or after 6 pm...people do it.

I drive a school bus..stop for flashing red lights, easy peasy right? Hells no, and not just because they're on their phone (we do see that often). And I have folks pull out in front of me daily - who wants to be behing a school bus, right? ME FIRST, safety second.

Why?
Probably same reason people drive 70 in a 55...it's all about ME!

And self driving cars obeying the rules will become issues regarding these idiot drivers. Why you think folks will fall in line I dont' know..they don't do it now, so why will they change?

"I gotta get to where i"m going!" and they'll drive 70, 75 in a 55. When too more autonomous vehicles are doing 55 that won't cause more road rage...yeah, right.

And not all self driving cars look like a tesla or ford fusion...It's gonna be obvious when you see this that you can 'take control' of the road and it won't rage at you, but will give way.

 

[3930dave]

I wonder how an autonomous car will deal with passing a slower vehicle on a two lane highway? How much below the speed limit will the self-driver allow before passing someone? And when it does, how does it look way down the road for traffic that is approaching? If it can't exceed the speed limit, passing times will be greatly increased. Before passing, will the auto car look back for other approaching passers? Seems like a very complicated addition to the driverless system programming. There will be objects moving in the same direction, stationary objects (like trees and stopped cars) and approaching objects that are far away and coming fast. Will the passing self drivers be allowed to speed temporarily? Or flow with traffic at speeds above the posted limit? This problem seems harder to fix than driving on a multi-lane freeway and the US has millions of miles of two lane roads.

We may see a long string of cars that are all speed governed by the slowest of the slow, where normally they would get passed.

Good points.

Heavy trucks are presently speed governed in Ontario, creating some of the issues you ID'd. Even on multi-lane highways.

Rgds, D.

 

[3930dave]

I've driven coast to coast and border to border (and back) and all over Europe, whatever sense you get from higher speed and lane swapping/weaving they make very little difference to actual journey times. It isn't the TOP speed that determines journey time, it is the creep along speed that we (all equally) get stuck in.

Ask anyone who drives a trailer to horse shows how much longer it really takes them from the barn to the show vs the sports sedan that the other half of the family are in.

I decided a long time ago that I already pay enough (with a good driving record) for insurance and taxes, so my default cruise speed is below the "Good afternoon officer....." threshold.

I've driven long personal trips as you describe..... steady driving, with only short rest breaks, is what gets it done.....

Situational awareness...... some of what we discuss in this thread revolves around distinct situations, that while perhaps not commonplace, aren't one-in-a-billion occurrences either. How long will it take AI to get some of these scenarios "right".

I drove back across Canada last Spring. Trans-Canada hwy, in Alberta, very little traffic at all...... A dual commercial trailer (one hwy tractor) in front of me, with the back trailer likely empty. Totally open deserted multi-lane road ahead of me, so I passed that trailer combo at well above my normal speed.

Why did I make that once-in-a-decade+ exception ? Prairie Wind. That rear empty trailer was hitting something like 30 degrees off-vertical in the wind gusts.

If I was only going to the next exit, I might have stayed well behind that combo...... As I had multiple provinces yet to cross, I chose passing at a high rate of speed, vs. the legal move of slowly creeping past that combo at the limit. In this case, the "illegal" move was the significantly safer one.

Thinking of that drive..... Alberta has very strict limits on speed, when an emergency vehicle is on the side of a major highway - the legal limit drops drastically based on the live emergency situation, regardless of what's posted.

Present AI might safely pass that Alberta emergency vehicle on the roadside, but will it do so w/o a (major) ticket ?

Rgds, D.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

I wonder how an autonomous car will deal with passing a slower vehicle on a two lane highway? How much below the speed limit will the self-driver allow before passing someone? And when it does, how does it look way down the road for traffic that is approaching? If it can't exceed the speed limit, passing times will be greatly increased. Before passing, will the auto car look back for other approaching passers? Seems like a very complicated addition to the driverless system programming. There will be objects moving in the same direction, stationary objects (like trees and stopped cars) and approaching objects that are far away and coming fast. Will the passing self drivers be allowed to speed temporarily? Or flow with traffic at speeds above the posted limit? This problem seems harder to fix than driving on a multi-lane freeway and the US has millions of miles of two lane roads.

We may see a long string of cars that are all speed governed by the slowest of the slow, where normally they would get passed.

If an autonomous vehicle can't distinguish among same-direction traffic, opposite-direction traffic and stationary objects it's not getting very far...

 

[JasperFrank]

Having been a delivery driver, I don't see the tech anywhere close to the situations I had to face. I've driven across country 22 times. There is no way AI has a better solution. It can't for instance say, It will take the longer route, to avoid a congestion, that is built in to its algorithm. Thats what people can do. I can enjoy the different route, the longer route, even if it doesn't save me time, the other longer route enriches my life. That is something a computer can never do.