Question about my septic leach field size

[Wilburn Cox]

My septic system was installed in 2002 in Erath County (Stephenville Texas) Was installed by licensed installer and inspected and approved by the County sanitation department. I was on site during the installation.
2 five hundred tanks were placed. Corrugated leach chambers were installed in trenches. I am looking at the site drawing and 2 trenches were first dug and each trench contains 12- 2' x 8' x1' chambers. The county inspector then wanted additional chambers so one trench was extended and 8 more chambers of the same size were added.
By my figures I have a total of 32 chambers that are 8' x 2' x 1' or 512 sq ft of chambers. The site drawing does not show how far apart the trenches are but it show 1500 Sq ft of leach field as required by the inspector.
Am I missing something? I hope there may be a septic system installer on this forum who can enlighten me. I have searched the internet on sizing a field using this number of chambers but have not found an answer.
Any assistance will be appreciated. Thanks and have a great and prosperous new year. Red Cox

 

[prof fate]

What is your question/problem with your system?

much depends on your soil and the perc test. What was 'legal' years ago today is often consdiered unacceptable - locally they're doing a lot of sand mounds - a pump to push the liquid up to an above ground pile o sand, monitors for pump failure, back flow preventers, etc. and while i've not heard of anyone replacing a mound they life expectancy is 10-15 years. We do have a lot of clay soil here.

I have an 1930s septic and the leech bed was redone in the 80s - perf pipe buried in gravel about 5' down and then covered in dirt, 3 50 foot or lines.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

What is your question? Are you having issues?

 

[jaxs]

As the prof said,it depend's on soil perk so there is no standard number for xx gallons per day.

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

As the prof said,it depend's on soil perk so there is no standard number for xx gallons per day.

This.

What, specifically, is the issue you're having now?

 

[RNeumann]

The “chambers” sound like Infiltrators which is a brand. Typically the rating is in cubic feet instead of square feet. That rating is the amount of leaching surface area- so 1sf of leach field that is 4’ deep is 4cubic feet of leaching. Infiltrators have a conversation factor that I don’t know off the top of my head. But let’s say your 8’x1.5’ “chamber” has 12sf of surface area may have something like 15 or 20cubic feet of leaching since the chamber can leach out the sides too.

Is this what u r asking?

 

[oosik]

Red - I oversaw the design, installation and approval of over 28,000 septic systems in my years with the Health Dept. There is no such thing as a "standard system". You must determine the rate at which the soil will accept the effluent( percolation rate ), the degree & type of primary treatment ( septic tank or whatever ) & the maximum amount of sewage produced per day. From these numbers - the secondary treatment and disposal system is designed( drain field or whatever ).

This is the BASIC DESIGN of any septic system. Every jurisdiction has their own special quirks added to this basic design.

There has been a total change in this concept in the last 15 to 20 years. The idea of a higher levels of treatment has been introduced. In both primary & secondary treatment & in the area of disposal methods. This has been most unjustified, in my opinion, in two areas. What would normally cost $3500 to $5000 now costs $15,000 to $20,000. A system that the normal homeowner might have understood and been able to maintain has now become a system beyond his comprehension and is computer controlled. He gets a twenty page operators manual( if lucky ) using terms he has never heard of and describing treatments and operations well beyond his understanding.

This has all come about because many, many companies have taken concepts, components & practices used in large utility sized systems and downsized to the individual home size. What has been forgotten and left behind - the homeowner is not a sewage treatment plant operator. Nor does he want to be. So companies have sprung up, in some areas, to fill this void. In a whole lot of areas - there is nobody to help the homeowner. They call the Health Dept. - Standard answer - "read your owners manual".

This is a terrible disservice to the homeowner. The very highest state of the art and technology has been used to design the most expensive system humanly possible. It functions on the knifes-edge of reliability. It requires a sewage treatment plant operator with the knowledge of this system to keep if functioning.

When the buzzers sound, the red light come on and the pumps, aerators, filters, etc, etc shut down - the homeowner is left with his operators manual and nobody to assist him. The Health Dept will be there - Johnny on the spot - should sewage discharge to the surface of the ground. However - they are very wary about acknowledging that the were the ones that originally approved this system. Especially, now that it has failed and there is nobody to assist in get it back operating.

It just like your car. Years ago the average guy could change the spark plugs & change and adjust the new points. Now a days - he can only stare in amazement at what lies under that hood.

And believe me - new autos function to a MUCH higher degree of reliability than modern home sewage treatment/disposal systems.

 

[prof fate]

Is/Was there a problem with the old way of doing things?

My old house (built 1937) has a two chamber 'crock' septic tank, 250 gallon capacity the pumper guys have told me. Back in 37 folks probably showered less, washed clothes less, used less chemicals overall, and many things went strait to the leech bed, the gray water, rather thru the tank itself, compared to day. SO I see some changes.

But has there been a problem with the old systems? Is my ground contaminated, the groundwater contaminated, since I don't have all the fancy tech of the new systems? If not, then why the new systems?

Red - I oversaw the design, installation and approval of over 28,000 septic systems in my years with the Health Dept. There is no such thing as a "standard system". You must determine the rate at which the soil will accept the effluent( percolation rate ), the degree & type of primary treatment ( septic tank or whatever ) & the maximum amount of sewage produced per day. From these numbers - the secondary treatment and disposal system is designed( drain field or whatever ).

This is the BASIC DESIGN of any septic system. Every jurisdiction has their own special quirks added to this basic design.

There has been a total change in this concept in the last 15 to 20 years. The idea of a higher levels of treatment has been introduced. In both primary & secondary treatment & in the area of disposal methods. This has been most unjustified, in my opinion, in two areas. What would normally cost $3500 to $5000 now costs $15,000 to $20,000. A system that the normal homeowner might have understood and been able to maintain has now become a system beyond his comprehension and is computer controlled. He gets a twenty page operators manual( if lucky ) using terms he has never heard of and describing treatments and operations well beyond his understanding.

This has all come about because many, many companies have taken concepts, components & practices used in large utility sized systems and downsized to the individual home size. What has been forgotten and left behind - the homeowner is not a sewage treatment plant operator. Nor does he want to be. So companies have sprung up, in some areas, to fill this void. In a whole lot of areas - there is nobody to help the homeowner. They call the Health Dept. - Standard answer - "read your owners manual".

This is a terrible disservice to the homeowner. The very highest state of the art and technology has been used to design the most expensive system humanly possible. It functions on the knifes-edge of reliability. It requires a sewage treatment plant operator with the knowledge of this system to keep if functioning.

When the buzzers sound, the red light come on and the pumps, aerators, filters, etc, etc shut down - the homeowner is left with his operators manual and nobody to assist him. The Health Dept will be there - Johnny on the spot - should sewage discharge to the surface of the ground. However - they are very wary about acknowledging that the were the ones that originally approved this system. Especially, now that it has failed and there is nobody to assist in get it back operating.

It just like your car. Years ago the average guy could change the spark plugs & change and adjust the new points. Now a days - he can only stare in amazement at what lies under that hood.

And believe me - new autos function to a MUCH higher degree of reliability than modern home sewage treatment/disposal systems.

 

[Trillium Farm]

I remember I had a dry well for all liquids except bathroom flushings, but as someone already said, in hose days we didn't have all the chemicals of today that are being flushed down the pipe.

 

[Wilburn Cox]

What is your question? Are you having issues?

Thanks wroughtn_harv; No, I have no problem with the leach field. May have to sell our property due to wife's health. Looking at all papers on septic system including site drawing, perk test, County requirement and final inspection and pictures I took during installation. There were a total of 32 leach panels/chambers placed in 2 separate trenches. Each panel is 8ft long 2ft wide and 1 ft tall. By my figures that is 512 Sq ft. The Sanitation Dept. inspection shows 1500 Sq ft of leach field.
My question is how was that determined. The two trenches were about 3ft wide and shows 30" deep. I don't know how far apart the trenches are.
I apologize for any confusion. Thanks for your input. Red Cox

 

[RNeumann]

Thanks wroughtn_harv; No, I have no problem with the leach field. May have to sell our property due to wife's health. Looking at all papers on septic system including site drawing, perk test, County requirement and final inspection and pictures I took during installation. There were a total of 32 leach panels/chambers placed in 2 separate trenches. Each panel is 8ft long 2ft wide and 1 ft tall. By my figures that is 512 Sq ft. The Sanitation Dept. inspection shows 1500 Sq ft of leach field.
My question is how was that determined. The two trenches were about 3ft wide and shows 30" deep. I don't know how far apart the trenches are.
I apologize for any confusion. Thanks for your input. Red Cox

Read my post above. You either misstated 1500sq feet or they miswrite sq feet. It should be cubic feet. The Infiltrators are rated to “leach” out the bottoms AND sides.

 

[mikester]

Is/Was there a problem with the old way of doing things?

My old house (built 1937) has a two chamber 'crock' septic tank, 250 gallon capacity the pumper guys have told me. Back in 37 folks probably showered less, washed clothes less, used less chemicals overall, and many things went strait to the leech bed, the gray water, rather thru the tank itself, compared to day. SO I see some changes.

But has there been a problem with the old systems? Is my ground contaminated, the groundwater contaminated, since I don't have all the fancy tech of the new systems? If not, then why the new systems?

There are a lot of environmental problems with the old septic systems including well water contamination, surface/ground water contamination, excess phosphates, etc. There are simply more and more people moving into the country with higher water consumption than ever before...Hence the need for sewage treatment systems. Its the price we pay to live in the country. If you dont like it move into the city and pay someone else to provide you with clean water and to take away and treat your sewage.

Too many city folk simply expect to flush anything they want down the drain and expect it to magically go away.

If you can afford to build a 5000 sq.ft house with 6 bathrooms then you can afford to pay for a sewage treatment system. And you can either learn how to manage it or pay someone to do it for you.

 

[Wilburn Cox]

Read my post above. You either misstated 1500sq feet or they miswrite sq feet. It should be cubic feet. The Infiltrators are rated to “leach” out the bottoms AND sides.

thanks RNeumann. I did re-read your post above and printed it out. The papers provided by the county Sanitation Dept. who inspected the site, checked the progress of installation and final approval of the system plainly shows 1500 SQUARE FEET of leach field. No place does it show CUBIC FEET. You are correct the chambers are designed to leach out the sides and the bottoms. Thanks for your input and have a great 2019. Red Cox

 

[Wilburn Cox]

There are a lot of environmental problems with the old septic systems including well water contamination, surface/ground water contamination, excess phosphates, etc. There are simply more and more people moving into the country with higher water consumption than ever before...Hence the need for sewage treatment systems. Its the price we pay to live in the country. If you dont like it move into the city and pay someone else to provide you with clean water and to take away and treat your sewage.

Too many city folk simply expect to flush anything they want down the drain and expect it to magically go away.

If you can afford to build a 5000 sq.ft house with 6 bathrooms then you can afford to pay for a sewage treatment system. And you can either learn how to manage it or pay someone to do it for you.

Thanks mikester; Even if you came on sort of strong. Wife & I are age 77 & 78. We don't have a 5000 Sq ft house and we love our 4 acres in the country. We have 1600 sq ft living area, 2 baths and all paper and baby wipes (if used) go into the trash. Water from the washing machine goes into a leach field of it's own. I do treat the septic system regularly with approved treatment. All I did was ask a question concerning how a leach field is sized. We are Christians and worship regularly in our local Church. When I want a sermon I will seek it there. Again thanks for you input. Red Cox

 

[RNeumann]

thanks RNeumann. I did re-read your post above and printed it out. The papers provided by the county Sanitation Dept. who inspected the site, checked the progress of installation and final approval of the system plainly shows 1500 SQUARE FEET of leach field. No place does it show CUBIC FEET. You are correct the chambers are designed to leach out the sides and the bottoms. Thanks for your input and have a great 2019. Red Cox

The other requirement is a field replacement area. That could be spelled out in square feet. Can you snap a photo of the paperwork?

 

[jfh28]

if I understand the OP's question correctly a leach field is sized based on the type of soil, the percolation rate found in a test pit dug in that soil, the depth of the water table and the anticipated flow rate from the house which is usually based on the number of bedrooms......so each and every property will have a different set of varying data to plug in to size the system....I've seen property not perc when every other lot around it was fine......there is no standard sized system.......if everything was permitted, inspected, and approved by local authorities and you're not having any issues with it then you should have nothing to worry about.....it only gets complicated and costly if you start having problems with it..........Jack

 

[jaxs]

There are a lot of environmental problems with the old septic systems including well water contamination, surface/ground water contamination, excess phosphates, etc. There are simply more and more people moving into the country with higher water consumption than ever before...Hence the need for sewage treatment systems. Its the price we pay to live in the country. If you dont like it move into the city and pay someone else to provide you with clean water and to take away and treat your sewage.

Too many city folk simply expect to flush anything they want down the drain and expect it to magically go away.

If you can afford to build a 5000 sq.ft house with 6 bathrooms then you can afford to pay for a sewage treatment system. And you can either learn how to manage it or pay someone to do it for you.

While you are up there on that big horse's back Mikester,consider this. Here's a quote from a local water district's website." Today, we serve 1.7 million people in about 80 communities in 10 counties, and our region is expected to double in size by 2050." They are permited by Texas Water Commission to by-pass sewage treatment plants to dump raw sewage during peak demand into same lakes from which they pull the public water supply. Never a month go's by when one or more of those communities don't issue a boil water alert. I don't agree with your stance that big shots handle sewage and protect water that much better than rural homeowners.

 

[oosik]

Why do we have more "exotic" treatment/disposal systems. The bottom line -$$$$$. The companies that mfg these systems are telling developers, politicians, health depts - - "We now have a way that you can develop the lands that were previously deemed unsuitable". OR "This will allow you to get more lots out of your chunk of land than with a conventional septic system".

I went to every weekly planning commission meeting. We had engineers that evaluated proposed development. Their comments were forwarded to the planning commission and made a part of the official record. I was there to expand on our comments and answer questions.

The developers & planning commission didn't like our comments - many times. Many times our comments would say - "poor soils for on-site disposal or no record of adequate quantities of potable water. This went directly counter to the big, splashy promotions and ads.

The Health Dept ran ads in the paper - " get in-writing guarantee of adequate quantities of potable water and suitable soils as a condition of purchase".

It was never any fun telling a new couple that they had just placed a down payment on a piece of land that an on-site sewage permit couldn't be issued on.

OR - they were very unlikely to find water when they had a well drilled.

 

[teejk]

Why do we have more "exotic" treatment/disposal systems. The bottom line -$$$$$. The companies that mfg these systems are telling developers, politicians, health depts - - "We now have a way that you can develop the lands that were previously deemed unsuitable". OR "This will allow you to get more lots out of your chunk of land than with a conventional septic system".

I went to every weekly planning commission meeting. We had engineers that evaluated proposed development. Their comments were forwarded to the planning commission and made a part of the official record. I was there to expand on our comments and answer questions.

The developers & planning commission didn't like our comments - many times. Many times our comments would say - "poor soils for on-site disposal or no record of adequate quantities of potable water. This went directly counter to the big, splashy promotions and ads.

The Health Dept ran ads in the paper - " get in-writing guarantee of adequate quantities of potable water and suitable soils as a condition of purchase".

It was never any fun telling a new couple that they had just placed a down payment on a piece of land that an on-site sewage permit couldn't be issued on.

OR - they were very unlikely to find water when they had a well drilled.

Well drilling is never a guarantee for anybody and any prospective rural buyer should know that. As for septic systems, it's all about ground water (we often share common underground aquifer "veins"). Probably over-kill in most cases but regulations tend towards a one-size-fits-all meant to address the worst-case scenario. Just the way it works.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Maybe I am dense but the answer for sizing the system has been given several times over. If you aren't trackin OP, you need to start doing some research and understand the regulations that the municipality and the state/ health department has set forth. Pa does not have a health department to over see the installations, jjst the state dep and the local seo. hAve designed septic systems and have had no issues getting them approved, conventional and sand mounds.