RX7320 problems @7 hrs on the meter

[Coyote machine]

Thanks for the video CM.

You're welcome. Their site has a lot of useful information and a bunch of vids. Check it out!:thumbsup:

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Here is a pic of a block heater by 'Kats' which shows a rubber O-ring for sealing to the freeze plug hole. I believe the current model does NOT have the O-ring- check the original pics from the Op's early thread post(s).
Note the block heaters are made in the US, and could easily have the wrong spec for the block hole diameter, which is either metric or something commonly used in S.Korea.

katz block heaters - Google Search

 

[finn1]

I don’t see a block heater listed for Kioti engines in the Kats catalog....

Kioti isn’t listed in the Phillips Temro catalog, either.

Looks like all of the core plug block heaters for installation in a standard, non threaded core plug hole have a butterfly toggle bolt, a bar type toggle bolt, or a curved bar bolt that expande to the inside of the machined core hole.

If these are installed by the dealer, over tightening or under tightening could be an issue.

I didn’t see any that were held in by glue as some posters stated. The o ring is just for sealing, and substitution of an anaerobic sealant wouldn’t affect retention in the bore. The o ring isn’t a retention device.

We used millions of the Temro heaters at theengine manufacturer I worked at, and I don’t remember any retention issues in the warranty data base. There may have been some instance of leaks, due to a damaged o ring or bore.

 

[jabelding]

I don’t see a block heater listed for Kioti engines in the Kats catalog....

Kioti isn’t listed in the Phillips Temro catalog, either.

Looks like all of the core plug block heaters for installation in a standard, non threaded core plug hole have a butterfly toggle bolt, a bar type toggle bolt, or a curved bar bolt that expande to the inside of the machined core hole.

If these are installed by the dealer, over tightening or under tightening could be an issue.

I didn’t see any that were held in by glue as some posters stated. The o ring is just for sealing, and substitution of an anaerobic sealant wouldn’t affect retention in the bore. The o ring isn’t a retention device.

We used millions of the Temro heaters at theengine manufacturer I worked at, and I don’t remember any retention issues in the warranty data base. There may have been some instance of leaks, due to a damaged o ring or bore.

Kioti Block heaters use a press fit sleeve that gets pounded into the block then the heater threads into it. The install calls for using a red loctite or similar sealant on the taper before it is pounded in. When I installed mine it was very tight and almost wouldn't bottom out it is definitely much tighter than any freeze plug so I am not worried about mine. Sounds like there may be a mfg defect where the bushing size is off and they are not going in as tight.

 

[ritcheyvs]

...
Note the block heaters are made in the US, and could easily have the wrong spec for the block hole diameter, which is either metric or something commonly used in S.Korea....

This would be my guess: a dimensional tolerence/QC thing: the hole was too big for the heater bushing. As jabelding states below, this should be a very tight interference fit. So I suspect the bushing was too small or the hole was too big (or maybe the taper was off). I have always been a fan of block heaters (vs in-hose heaters) but not now.

Given two instances of this heater sleeve failure documented here (plus ones alluded to by the mechanic) its plain that Kioti needs to deal with this, even if it is to prohibit aftermarket block heaters.

 

[finn1]

If it’s a tapered insert, I would bet heavily that whoever is doing the installation, probably at the dealership, isn’t fully seating the insert.

If it was a crankcase machining problem, the other core plugs would be falling out, too, and I see no reports of that happening.

 

[LouNY]

Kioti Block heaters use a press fit sleeve that gets pounded into the block then the heater threads into it. The install calls for using a red loctite or similar sealant on the taper before it is pounded in. When I installed mine it was very tight and almost wouldn't bottom out it is definitely much tighter than any freeze plug so I am not worried about mine. Sounds like there may be a mfg defect where the bushing size is off and they are not going in as tight.

I would tend to blame the installer more then the method.
It doesn't seem to be the most secure method, but if done properly it must be working for a great many installs.
In my mind installation errors could include;
1) was the bore the frost plug was removed from cleaned properly
2) was any trace of coolant cleaned and dried from the casting bore
3) was the proper adhesive used
4) was the proper amount of sealant used
5) was the sealant given any cure time
6) was the adapter fully seated
7) did the installer tighten the threaded heater itself to tight, especially with the adhesive not being cured and damage the adhesion

With many times the most junior employee being given the "simple" jobs that in many peoples eyes would not require strict supervision,
errors and shortcuts do occur.
Beat and yank the frost plug out, let the coolant dump out the hole,
smear a bit of locktite on the adapter, drive it in, dope up the heater threads,
screw it in use a deep socket and 1/2" drive breaker bar to get it snug,
Fill the radiator, done.
The results may vary, might work might not, and who knows for how long.
It would all go back to workmanship and time and knowledge.

 

[Highgear]

I have to agree with Grateful11 post #4 . Looks like they used Strawberry Jelly !

 

[Ford850]

If it’s a tapered insert, I would bet heavily that whoever is doing the installation, probably at the dealership, isn’t fully seating the insert.

If it was a crankcase machining problem, the other core plugs would be falling out, too, and I see no reports of that happening.

I would tend to blame the installer more then the method.
It doesn't seem to be the most secure method, but if done properly it must be working for a great many installs.
In my mind installation errors could include;
1) was the bore the frost plug was removed from cleaned properly
2) was any trace of coolant cleaned and dried from the casting bore
3) was the proper adhesive used
4) was the proper amount of sealant used
5) was the sealant given any cure time
6) was the adapter fully seated
7) did the installer tighten the threaded heater itself to tight, especially with the adhesive not being cured and damage the adhesion

With many times the most junior employee being given the "simple" jobs that in many peoples eyes would not require strict supervision,
errors and shortcuts do occur.
Beat and yank the frost plug out, let the coolant dump out the hole,
smear a bit of locktite on the adapter, drive it in, dope up the heater threads,
screw it in use a deep socket and 1/2" drive breaker bar to get it snug,
Fill the radiator, done.
The results may vary, might work might not, and who knows for how long.
It would all go back to workmanship and time and knowledge.

This (Dealer) seems like the obvious weak link in the whole process, backed up by the dealer admitting this isn't the first one they had back with a loose insert.

 

[finn1]

I知 a little puzzled as to why Kioti uses the insert type of crankcase heater adapter, but, considering that neither Phillips Temro or Kats list a heater for the Kioti engine, my guess is that there isn稚 room in the water jacket for a traditional toggle / butterfly retention arrangement.

The press fit adapter is probably a way to work around that issue, but is subject to installation related failures.

These seem to be pretty good starting engines without any aids, but I keep mine in the semi / unheated garage, so others may have different experience. I don稚 even use the preheat device (glow plug or grid heater- never documented which it has). Starts immediately and no white smoke.

 

[Coyote machine]

To clarify for those given the impression that Kats or Katz block heaters are in current use by Kioti, I never said that. I said I believe the unit I have is by Katz, IIRC from my 2009 DK-35 and 2010 DK-40 block heater's installed by my dealer. I said I'd never used either to date since both tractors reside on radiant heat barn floors.
It's possible Katz or another supplier may be an OEM behind the scenes supplier to Kioti, and their part # would not show up in their catagog, EXCEPT to Kioti 's dealers? Some suppliers only sell to manufacturers, and not to the general public. Im not saying this is the case here, but it might be why no one here is able to find the part in question.

I tend to agree with the possible faulty install by dealer 'junior' mechanic(s), except for the engine in the other thread that did melt down. Unfortunately in that thread we don't have verification of a dealer or owner install of the block heater. IMO, if owner installed the greater chance of a FUBAR install. If dealer installed a FUBAR is still a possibility, but less so.
Either way, maybe Kioti will have to ban 'aftermarket' block heaters, install a brand at the factory, or provide a bracket retrofit kit, or include a boss that a bracket and screw can attach to that can be used to retain a particular brand or style of heater to the block, from the factory going forward.

We don't have enough specific data yet to determine what the cause/effect is. We do know that whatever the cause and brand of block heater is aren't working well as intended and a correction needs to be found for what seems to have happened on too many installs recently.

Other than having Kioti Corp verify that they are aware of this issue and are working on or know what the solution is, I don't think we can do much to stop the issue, especially if it turns out to be installed error coupled with a faulty taper of the adapter, coupled with not enough 'strawberry jelly' and possible orvertorquing of the heater into the adapter before aqdequate cure time for the 'jelly' to cure...