Comparison Which manufacturer has the highest HP true HST tractor?

[Bavarian]

Also MF has the very same transmission.

No. The Dyna transmission in the MF is different to the Vario in the Fendt. At a certain size, they share the same engine.

 

[daugen]

This was a big issue for me, and my understanding is JD always had a slight lead here. I bought a Kubota L5740 and cross shopped the JD 4R equivalent six years ago, wanted the most power in a hydrostatic unit. I find loader work so much easier with a hydro, better feel through the treadle. I'm now learning on my first powershuttle since I could not go larger with a hydro. To me the PS is nowhere near as easy or convenient to use. I don't care a whit about efficiency, I'm a low hour hobby farmer who wants convenience and usability, not 5 percent better fuel mileage, and I scratch my head why the manufacturers don't produce a model for my "niche" in the market.

My understanding is IVT still requires a powershuttle style forward reverse lever function. Also my understanding is that hydro is the only way to change direction without using one's arms. I have a bum right arm, losing my grip literally, and having floor controls worked really well for me. I explored this same issue a few months ago when buying my Massey recently, and the market hadn't changed, still stuck in the 60's. I think the first manufacturer that brings out a 80-100 hp hydrostatic model will sell a bunch. But they must have done some market research here, so clearly this is just my opinion. Or wish...

 

[JimP]

I have always had hydrostatic tractors. I did use my neighbors Kubota M7040, which was power shuttle. The power shuttle allows forward reverse direction changes with a lever but still requires a clutch to stop. I don't mind the shuttle lever but would like to avoid needing a clutch. I also use a power shift dozer. This is a torque converter connected to a manual transmission that allows shifting speeds or forward-reverse without a clutch. Lower the throttle and apply brake and the dozer stops thanks to the torque converter. Is there a 70 - 80 hp tractor that doesn't need a clutch similar to the dozer power shift? I can't think of any having a TQ. How do CVT tractors work and how have they held up?

This follows up the OP's original questions but if not appropriate feel free to move to a different thread.

 

[Agvg]

As mentioned Fendt has a completely steepness transmission, iss a dual hydrostatic and mechanical transmission, MF also uses the same gearbox from Fendt

20 m/h to 60km/h steepless.

Fendt Vario Transmission - YouTube

Suppose such transmissions will become more a available, or more likely the electrical transmission and electric PTO will be the dominant technology, electric PTO has huge advantages.

 

[Bavarian]

I have always had hydrostatic tractors. I did use my neighbors Kubota M7040, which was power shuttle. The power shuttle allows forward reverse direction changes with a lever but still requires a clutch to stop. I don't mind the shuttle lever but would like to avoid needing a clutch. I also use a power shift dozer. This is a torque converter connected to a manual transmission that allows shifting speeds or forward-reverse without a clutch. Lower the throttle and apply brake and the dozer stops thanks to the torque converter. Is there a 70 - 80 hp tractor that doesn't need a clutch similar to the dozer power shift? I can't think of any having a TQ. How do CVT tractors work and how have they held up?

This follows up the OP's original questions but if not appropriate feel free to move to a different thread.

There seems to be only 3 tractors available in that class. The Case/New Holland with their version of 55 hp cvt or the Yanmar.
The above mentioned Fendt 207 Vario plays in a different league. It's more comparable to the JD 5R series. The 200 Vario series isn't even offered to the american market on the Agco website.
Regarding a tractor test report in Europe, the sales price is north of 100,000 Euros. A price range, where a Gran L customer won't look at.

 

[searcyfarms]

IH made several over the 60HP range even up to a 1066 which was detuned to around 105hp if i remember right they changed them to the Hydro 100 and then I think the 186 after that.

Yea yea i know they are old and less desirable due to the creature comfort cabs being more noisy and not as many cool buttons as todays options.

I have never ran one so not sure of how the hydro part works if its lever or foot controlled. Nothing that couldnt be made into a pedal with some fabrication if not and desired.

I think they ranged in power from around 50 up to 105hp PTO HP I think they made about a dozen different models from utility to row crop chassis. Cab and non Cabbed versions. From what i remember most of the things i read were the people that had trouble with them overused them and got them hot, the people that used them for utility/loader vs row crop farming had the best luck and loved them, most got 25 yrs at least in those applications if not longer and loved them - there are many still out there today and a few folks that rebuild the hydros - pertaining to the marketing around new ones in that hp range my guess would be the same, cost vs purchasers - if they cant make one that will fit in that segment that will compete $$ wise for the amount of people that would buy, no manufacturer will probably venture down that road.

 

[TSO]

I have always had hydrostatic tractors. I did use my neighbors Kubota M7040, which was power shuttle. The power shuttle allows forward reverse direction changes with a lever but still requires a clutch to stop. I don't mind the shuttle lever but would like to avoid needing a clutch. I also use a power shift dozer. This is a torque converter connected to a manual transmission that allows shifting speeds or forward-reverse without a clutch. Lower the throttle and apply brake and the dozer stops thanks to the torque converter. Is there a 70 - 80 hp tractor that doesn't need a clutch similar to the dozer power shift? I can't think of any having a TQ. How do CVT tractors work and how have they held up?

This follows up the OP's original questions but if not appropriate feel free to move to a different thread.

I just sold my Ford/NH 545D industrial Tractor/Loader. It has a shuttle lever with a torque converter. Not clutch operated... No clutch to be found. They don't make them anymore. I think 2001 was the end of the line.

Easy to operate... Not as easy as HST but not bad. Crazy strong loader.

 

[Trillium Farm]

No. The Dyna transmission in the MF is different to the Vario in the Fendt. At a certain size, they share the same engine.

2 different names, but same transmission, same for Valtra. AGCO owns all of them as far as I know.

 

[LouNY]

Here is a lot of info on the IH hydros,
I have worked a 656 gas, a 1026 diesel and a Hydro 100 then the 100 got a turbo added to it, that was to get the pto hp back up to match a 1066.
None of them used a foot feed for the control, it was a lever that you slid ahead for forward and pulled back over and down for reverse.
They did have a foot pedal that was called a foot and inch valve it interrupted the pump swash plate control and acted as a foot clutch.
I enjoyed them for lighter work, they were handy for light drawbar loads and pto work.
The heat and fluid changes or lack of did them in, especially when used for drawbar work.

166 hydro - General IH - Red Power Magazine Community

 

[Bavarian]

2 different names, but same transmission, same for Valtra. AGCO owns all of them as far as I know.

The MF DYNA4 is a powershift transmission, shifting gears. The Vario is driven by a hydrostatic motor.
Two different animals

 

[SDT]

I currently own a L4701 and would like to get into at least into the 60s HP for my next tractor. I know about the L6060 but am not familiar with any other 60+ HP HST models. Can anyone help me?

I researched this about three years ago before buying my L6060.

The JD 4066 engine is about 10-12 CI smaller than the Kubota L6060 but it is intercooled and produces about 1 PTO HP more. You will not notice the 1 PTO HP but the 4066 (deluxe version) also has EPTO (not available on 6060), which is a nice feature for light duty PTO tasks.

I do not believe that things have changed significantly since.

I liked the 4066 but the JD dealer was both arrogant and unhelpful, so I bought the Kubota. No regrets.

SDT

 

[SDT]

Many large Ag tractors are Infinitely Variable. Probably not oil driven. Too much heat and hp loss. Not to mention noise!

Bingo.

MAN tried to market hydrostat railroad locomotives in the 50s-early 60s.

Their effort was a commercial failure due to inefficiency vis a vis diesel electric.

FWIW, the future is diesel electric for both Ag and construction equipment due to significantly improved efficiency.

SDT

 

[LouNY]

I have always had hydrostatic tractors. I did use my neighbors Kubota M7040, which was power shuttle. The power shuttle allows forward reverse direction changes with a lever but still requires a clutch to stop. I don't mind the shuttle lever but would like to avoid needing a clutch. I also use a power shift dozer. This is a torque converter connected to a manual transmission that allows shifting speeds or forward-reverse without a clutch. Lower the throttle and apply brake and the dozer stops thanks to the torque converter. Is there a 70 - 80 hp tractor that doesn't need a clutch similar to the dozer power shift? I can't think of any having a TQ. How do CVT tractors work and how have they held up?

This follows up the OP's original questions but if not appropriate feel free to move to a different thread.

Power Shuttles;
Most power shuttles do not have a single dry clutch, a few small ones do the same as most hydrostatics do not have a clutch, a few do.
Most power shuttles can be shuttled forward to reverse strictly using the shuttle control.
from neutral on the shuttle the lever can just be moved to forward and the tractor will engage the forward wet clutch clutch pack, to reverse bring the control thru neutral to reverse the tractor will slow pause then begin reversing. Personally I prefer to move the control to neutral brake to stop then move the control to reverse, I believe that this will reduce the wear on the wet clutch packs.

Power Shifts are available in full or partial styles;
Most full powershift transmissions can be used without touching the clutch, although most people will use the clutch to initially get moving or to come to a stop, instead of going thru all the gears to get to neutral to stop. The powershift that I am most familiar with is in the CIH Magnum series especially the 71 and 7200s. These are an 18 speed full power shift. what that amounts to is a six speed main box with a three speed auxiliary, all of these are multi disc wet clutches so 9 clutch packs to get 18 speeds all selected by just clinking a shifter up a gear indicator if a person wanted to go thru every gear starting in first and ending up in 18th, it would be 1L 2L 3L 4L 5L 6L, now 7th involves going back to the 1st gear pack and a range shift from the low to the mid range at the same time so 1M=7 2M=8 3M=9 and so on to 12th, 13th is also a double clutch pack shift going back to 1st gear and High range 1H=13 2h=14 up to 6H=18th. These have been very durable transmission a great many have exceeded and gone well past 10,000 and even 20,000 hours of use.
Partial power shift come in many different style and shapes, from simple shift on the go reduction units (IH TA's, Oliver hydro power, Allis Chalmers power divider come to my mind) then there are also over and under units (Oliver Hyda shift) which gave a partial gear shift under or over the selected manual gear.
Also more currently the partial power shift consists of a 4 to 6 speed power shift transmission using wet clutch packs for each gear combined with a manually shift range box of 2 to 4 ranges.
Many modern powershift or partial powershifts are eguipped with power shuttles.

As far as torque converters in tractors many or most of the industrial series used them very few where used in ag applications the one that comes to my mind are the Olivers with the lug a matic most of those also had the 2 stroke Detroit 3-53 engine.

So here is a fair amount of info that it for what it's worth,
no I didn't include any info on JD's because I am not that familiar with them, I know the 4440has a single speed power shift and that many of them have power shift transmissions especially the newer ones..

Also the newer large CVT's are a marriage of a small range hydro with a multi-speed power shift.

 

[Trillium Farm]

The MF DYNA4 is a powershift transmission, shifting gears. The Vario is driven by a hydrostatic motor.
Two different animalsView attachment 597174

I thought that the Dyna was also a CVT. Do you use a Dyna or Vario ?

 

[Bavarian]

I thought that the Dyna was also a CVT. Do you use a Dyna or Vario ?

No, neither. I'm just a bit mentally connected to Fendt, since (we) both are made in Bavaria.

 

[searcyfarms]

agree, we will get there one of these days when we get the diesel engine/electric motor planted in the tractors, infinite speeds forward/backward as well as so many less moving parts.

unless of course the gov't steps in like they have so many other times and screw it all up to fit their agenda.

 

[searcyfarms]

not affordable for most of us but here is something interesting I found

Ahead of the Curve: Electric Drive Tractor Coming to U.S. & Canada | Farm Equipment Publication

 

[LouNY]

not affordable for most of us but here is something interesting I found

Ahead of the Curve: Electric Drive Tractor Coming to U.S. & Canada | Farm Equipment Publication

The electric drive to replace mechanical pto and hydraulics is also very promising, their has been quite a bit of development in that area in Europe.

 

[Trillium Farm]

No, neither. I'm just a bit mentally connected to Fendt, since (we) both are made in Bavaria.

Ach so, jetzt verstehe ich :thumbsup:

 

[Bavarian]

Ach so, jetzt verstehe ich

Gruess Gott.