Any apocalyptic way to kill nutgrass?

[strantor]

I'm installing a 24ft above ground pool in my yard and I'm paranoid about the nutgrass. I have lots of it. I've already excavated a flat spot for it; at the deepest about 8" and at the shallowest about at grade, maybe 1" below. The internet says you need to dig 14" below nutgrass to ensure you get it all. I really don't want to dig that deep. First off, my tractor doesn't dig like a bobcat. I can't get down into a tight hole and scoot around digging. Second, I don't want the pool sitting in a hole that's going to stay full of water for 4 months a year, rusting it out from the bottom. So the depth I dug, I think is best for the pool. But the nutgrass... it will grow right up through a pool.

I've already doused the ground with 10gal of diesel and 10 gal of gasoline and torched the crap out of it. Then I sprayed 10gal of super-concentrated mixture of roundup and Image. The instructions for both products said they need to be sprayed on emerged plants to be effective but I sprayed the bare dirt anyway. It was supposed to make me feel better but it didn't. I'm not sure the soil burning did anything either, but I still felt like I was accomplishing something.

Before I put the pool in, I will spread several bags of salt and then lay down at least two layers of geotextile road fabric, and some plastic sheeting too. I've seen nutgrass grow through road fabric before so I'm not sure how much good it will do.

Is there anything else I can do to definitively eradicate the nutgrass tubers subgrade before I proceed? I really, really don't want to have a nutgrass problem, ever, after I install this pool. Is there somewhere I can get recycled uranium or something to spread over the area? I'm usually opposed to harsh chemicals but I will absolutely make an exception for this.

 

[Buxus]

Sedgehammer herbicide. It's not cheap, but it works incredibly well.

 

[boomer1025]

First thing you should have done was sprayed the area with the roundup and waited till it was dead. Then maybe sprayed the area with ground clear bbefore you even done and digging. Might spray the area with the ground clear before you do much else. then wait and see if anything comes up, then installed the pool.

 

[suburbanfarmer]

How to kill nutsedge in 72 hours or less. (Step-by-step process with pictures of the results) - YouTube

 

[Kyle_in_Tex]

nutsedge.

Did you get the ground level? I like soft sand under my tarp. The pool still mashes it down and hardens it.

 

[strantor]

Sedgehammer herbicide. It's not cheap, but it works incredibly well.

First thing you should have done was sprayed the area with the roundup and waited till it was dead. Then maybe sprayed the area with ground clear bbefore you even done and digging. Might spray the area with the ground clear before you do much else. then wait and see if anything comes up, then installed the pool.

How to kill nutsedge in 72 hours or less. (Step-by-step process with pictures of the results) - YouTube

Ok I've researched the quoted suggestions (sedge hammer, ground clear, sedge ender) and it seems they all share the same caveats as the roundup and the Image that I've already sprayed: they only kill the emerged nutsege, and in most cases there is a narrow window of time when they are most effective; in early spring after the nutseges have 3 blades but before they grow 5 blades. They recommend repeat treatments, every spring, for a few years. Because the nutgrass "nuts" abound beneath the soil and can lay dormant for several years before spontaneously deciding to sprout up, and these products don't permeate the ground to kill the nuts. I appreciate the suggestions but I'm not convinced there is a solution just yet.

I heard an older gentleman in town a while back (I wish I had listened more closely) talking about a method they used to use to kill nutgrass, where the area to be treated would have several dishes of a particularly nasty chemical laid out, and then covered with black plastic sheet, sealed tight to the ground around the edges. During the heat of the day, the chemical would turn to a gas, which would slightly inflate the plastic sheet, and then at night would condense back to a liquid. He said this trapped chemical gas (wish I could remember what it was) would permeate the soil over a foot deep and kill every single living thing that existed in the ground there. Grass, nutgrass, weeds, ants, worms, rhizomes, everything. Total apocalyptic death across the board. If this sounds familiar at all, please tell me what you know about it. This sounds like what I need. I suspect however that, if there was any truth to it, as effective as it was, probably something like that would be illegal these days.

 

[tjkubota93]

I would think you could soak the ground with a pre-emerge like simazine or something. There are alot of pre emerge chemicals, some are stronger than others.

 

[tjkubota93]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2rRcaDNmQsrhINMnOQQAW8

Sounds like you want metolachlor

 

[s219]

Sedgehammer herbicide. It's not cheap, but it works incredibly well.

Yep, it works great (and will kill the nuts attached to treated plants). But it needs to be applied to growing plants. I take it the firebombing has eliminated those.

Nutsedge "nuts" can remain dormant in the soil for many years (10-15 years, I was told) and then sprout a plant. It's a tough cookie and very hard to eliminate -- can outlast some of us.

 

[radios1]

Ok I've researched the quoted suggestions (sedge hammer, ground clear, sedge ender) and it seems they all share the same caveats as the roundup and the Image that I've already sprayed: they only kill the emerged nutsege, and in most cases there is a narrow window of time when they are most effective; in early spring after the nutseges have 3 blades but before they grow 5 blades. They recommend repeat treatments, every spring, for a few years. Because the nutgrass "nuts" abound beneath the soil and can lay dormant for several years before spontaneously deciding to sprout up, and these products don't permeate the ground to kill the nuts. I appreciate the suggestions but I'm not convinced there is a solution just yet.

I heard an older gentleman in town a while back (I wish I had listened more closely) talking about a method they used to use to kill nutgrass, where the area to be treated would have several dishes of a particularly nasty chemical laid out, and then covered with black plastic sheet, sealed tight to the ground around the edges. During the heat of the day, the chemical would turn to a gas, which would slightly inflate the plastic sheet, and then at night would condense back to a liquid. He said this trapped chemical gas (wish I could remember what it was) would permeate the soil over a foot deep and kill every single living thing that existed in the ground there. Grass, nutgrass, weeds, ants, worms, rhizomes, everything. Total apocalyptic death across the board. If this sounds familiar at all, please tell me what you know about it. This sounds like what I need. I suspect however that, if there was any truth to it, as effective as it was, probably something like that would be illegal these days.

it looks like you are describing Granular Chlorine, which would do as you describe..

 

[AWSubie]

You’re right to be paranoid. I put in a 21 foot pool two years ago after the first year I had a couple sprigs of nutsedge coming through the bottom of the liner. I had to fill a 3cc syringe with glyphosate and inject into the liner to take care of it (which thankfully killed the sprigs) it seems like you have done about all that you can. good luck

 

[2LaneCruzer]

Methyl Bromide maybe?

https://www.ippc.int/static/media/f...0_2009_TPFQ_30___Weed_control_wi858924648.pdf

I used to work with an Engineer who was also a licensed pest control agent. I recall him talking about using Bromine to kill weeds/insects, but with many caveats.

 

[MossRoad]

This is how private people lose the right to purchase chemicals and dynamite. :laughing:

Dig out the soil to the recommended depth to remove the offending plant roots, fill in with sand, and compact it. I'd also go a couple feet past the diameter of the pool just to have a buffer. Sand makes a good base for pavers, brick, etc... around the outside of the pool as well. You should put some sand under the area anyway to help protect the liner from roots and rocks.

I'd be skeptical about putting salt in the soil under the pool, as salt will attack your metal frame if it gets to it. Salt leaches. Once you put the pool over that area, it will draw moisture UP to the bottom of the liner, and out to the sides. That's right where your metal pool frame will be.

I have a salt water above ground pool. Everything is fine until you get a leak. If it's not detected and stopped, in a year or two, you can see corrosion and rust on the metal walls and frame, especially in areas where the paint is scratched. The most troublesome areas are where the skimmer and water return line go through the wall.

 

[snymat68]

Dig out the soil to the recommended depth to remove the offending plant roots, fill in with sand, and compact it. I'd also go a couple feet past the diameter of the pool just to have a buffer.

I think this is the only way you're going to get piece of mind.

...or lay down a giant steel plate to put the pool on...

 

[strantor]

Methyl Bromide maybe?

https://www.ippc.int/static/media/f...0_2009_TPFQ_30___Weed_control_wi858924648.pdf

I used to work with an Engineer who was also a licensed pest control agent. I recall him talking about using Bromine to kill weeds/insects, but with many caveats.

I believe that's it. The document you linked describes the exact process that the old man did, so it must be it, or close enough. And, as I predicted, too effective to still be legal. Manufacture and importation banned since 2005, remaining quantity dwindled to where it's probably worth its weight in gold if you even know where to find it, have the proper licenses, and special permission slip granted by the government only for a verified agricultural emergency.

 

[strantor]

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sou...FjAAegQIAxAB&usg=AOvVaw2rRcaDNmQsrhINMnOQQAW8

Sounds like you want metolachlor

Thanks. I researched it a bit and found it odd that the manufacturer metolachor does not include nutsedge among the list of controlled species. But the 3rd party whitepaper you linked to says it does. Maybe it does, but just not well enough for the manufacturer to put their name behind it? I don't know. I was willing to give it a shot but couldn't find anywhere local to buy it, and didn't have time to wait for shipping. I had 6"-10" of rain on the way and had to decide whether to put the pool up and capture that rain, or let the rain pass and wait 2 weeks + for the mud hole to turn back into a pool site. The family compelled me against my better judgement. "Summer will be over by the time you get the pool finished "

 

[strantor]

it looks like you are describing Granular Chlorine, which would do as you describe..

I'm afraid I didn't see this in time. If it works that well, it would have been easy to spread it while I was spreading salt and insecticide. Oh well, thank you though.

 

[radios1]

I believe that's it. The document you linked describes the exact process that the old man did, so it must be it, or close enough. And, as I predicted, too effective to still be legal. Manufacture and importation banned since 2005, remaining quantity dwindled to where it's probably worth its weight in gold if you even know where to find it, have the proper licenses, and special permission slip granted by the government only for a verified agricultural emergency.

there's always Granular Chlorine, which you can still buy at a pool supply, and many other places.. if it's alive, Chlorine will kill it!.. it destroys DNA, but it's very safe, if common sense is used. it also dissipates in a couple of days in soil..

 

[strantor]

This is how private people lose the right to purchase chemicals and dynamite. :laughing:

Dig out the soil to the recommended depth to remove the offending plant roots, fill in with sand, and compact it. I'd also go a couple feet past the diameter of the pool just to have a buffer. Sand makes a good base for pavers, brick, etc... around the outside of the pool as well. You should put some sand under the area anyway to help protect the liner from roots and rocks.

I'd be skeptical about putting salt in the soil under the pool, as salt will attack your metal frame if it gets to it. Salt leaches. Once you put the pool over that area, it will draw moisture UP to the bottom of the liner, and out to the sides. That's right where your metal pool frame will be.

I have a salt water above ground pool. Everything is fine until you get a leak. If it's not detected and stopped, in a year or two, you can see corrosion and rust on the metal walls and frame, especially in areas where the paint is scratched. The most troublesome areas are where the skimmer and water return line go through the wall.

I also was skeptical about spreading salt under the pool and had the same concerns about it rusting out. The directions sent with the pool explicitly called for salt to spread under it, so if I do experience any rust problems stemming from the salt, it "should" be covered by the 25yr warranty. I also considered a sheet steel bottom but I've already spent more on this than I should have, and compounded by the weather time constraints, I pushed it from my mind. I might regret that.

 

[strantor]

So the pool is up. I layed 150lbs of salt and 50lbs of amdro, then a layer of road fabric, then 4-6" of compacted sand, then another layer of road fabric, then put in the liner. I was out there in my underwear laying the liner as the heavy rains were coming in. By the time I was done, I was flopping around in 2" of water.