First decision: CUT vs construction backhoe

[Coach v]

We are looking to buy our first tractor. We built our home about 10 years ago in the mountains of rural NE California at 3500' on about 3 sloped rocky treed acres in the woods.

We have many different uses for this tractor, most all being currently done by hand. These include moving approx 10 yards of sand for pigs every season (my boys show 4-H) , digging the hole to process backup pig, snow removal on 800' of drive (600' gravel, 200 asphalt), maintaining gravel drive, moving firewood and rocks, digging stumps, moving and leveling fill and native soil.

Renting is generally out of the picture as closest rental yard is an hour plus and transportation costs are high. I am sometimes able to borrow friends skid steer and Kubota b21. I don't like doing this, especially when stuff breaks.

I have been looking at used older 2x4 construction backhoes in the $10k range. I have not pulled the trigger as I worry about them being too big and too much work/problems.

I think a compact farm tractor would be more versatile, but worry about not having enough power/weight and they are 3x the price.

I have a Deere dealer about 25 miles from me. Closest Kubota dealer 2.5hrs. Branson, Mahrinda, Koiti, LS, New Holland dealers between 1 and 1.5 hours out.

I have been going in circles over decided and need some help. Which direction would you go?

 

[Coach v]

I have several hundred feet of trench to dig for water lines too.

 

[4570Man]

A construction backhoe will make a fool out of a tractor when it comes to dirt moving. The downside is they’re heavy and not very versatile. Given the limited budget I think the construction hoe is the best value. 10k backhoes are likely to be problematic. But so is any old and well used machine.

 

[jeff9366]

Where will you store a construction Backhoe on three acres?

Are you a reasonably competent mechanic?
Where I live in north-central Florida the Kubota shop charges $75 per hour for mechanic time.
I would expect at least $100 per hour for mechanic time in California.


The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to identify potential tractor applications first, then determine bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers. Heavier tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

I believe a compact 4-WD tractor with minimum bare tractor weight of 2,700 pounds, with an optional Front End Loader should serve for your applications, less stump removal. The Loader bucket will need an aftermarket Toothbar to dig well.
VENDER: W.R. Long, Inc. | Tooth Bar & Wear Blades

When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second and (narrowly) rear wheel ballast third.

Due to your altitude and hills I recommend 33-horsepower to 39-horsepower paired with a three (3) range HST transmission. Consider optional wheel spacers to spread the rear wheels for increased stability.

How deep do you need to trench for water lines?
If only 12" to 14" deep you can use a Three Point Hitch mounted Middlebuster of Subsoiler to loose the soil, then scoop out some spoil with a narrow trenching shovel.
VIDEOS: tractor middlebuster trenching - YouTube
tractor subsoiler trenching - YouTube

RE: Photo #3
A 2,700 pound bare weight tractor FEL will have a breakout force of ~~1,800 pounds~~, more than enough to loosen large rocks in photo. After large rocks are loose you can tow them behind the tractor with chains. Subsoiler or Middlebuster will plow through the small rocks fine. I do not see the need for a $7,000 tractor backhoe for your applications.

A 2,700 pound bare weight tractor will fit in a standard residential garage with room to spare.

A quality dealer, reasonably close, available for coaching, is important for tractor neophytes. Most new tractors are delivered with a glitch or two requiring correction. My Kubota dealer is six miles away. I feel my local dealer continues to add value to my equipment after seven years. Dealer proximity is less important for those experienced with tractors and qualified to perform their own maintenance.

Due to proximity, I would shop Deere first. Transporting a tractor for service is a costly operation.

 

[Teachu2]

We're in similar terrain. Recently had to dig a new leech system for the septic, and the plumbing contractor rented a Cat CTL. We needed to dig a 3' wide trench, 6'+ feet deep, 50 + feet long. We're 45 minutes drive from the rental yard, they charged $200 to drop it off and pick it up, plus the rental of $275 a day. Rented it for one day, they left it for 12 more - $475 total.

The difference between a 14k lb 100+HP and a 3500 lb CUT with a backhoe is immense. So is the driving experience - especially on slopes. Popped stumps out of the ground with ease, moved large landscaping rocks, and enjoyed the air-conditioned cab. Tall, wide brute of a machine, nimble but big and a high center of gravity. Excellent for what I needed it for, but if I needed to do water lines two feet deep, it would not be my first choice. A BX with a backhoe trenches for supply lines well, and a tracked walk-behind trencher is what I rented for sprinkler and hose bib trenching. The CTL would be cumbersome and disrupt a lot of soil needlessly.

 

[4570Man]

We're in similar terrain. Recently had to dig a new leech system for the septic, and the plumbing contractor rented a Cat CTL. We needed to dig a 3' wide trench, 6'+ feet deep, 50 + feet long. We're 45 minutes drive from the rental yard, they charged $200 to drop it off and pick it up, plus the rental of $275 a day. Rented it for one day, they left it for 12 more - $475 total.

The difference between a 14k lb 100+HP and a 3500 lb CUT with a backhoe is immense. So is the driving experience - especially on slopes. Popped stumps out of the ground with ease, moved large landscaping rocks, and enjoyed the air-conditioned cab. Tall, wide brute of a machine, nimble but big and a high center of gravity. Excellent for what I needed it for, but if I needed to do water lines two feet deep, it would not be my first choice. A BX with a backhoe trenches for supply lines well, and a tracked walk-behind trencher is what I rented for sprinkler and hose bib trenching. The CTL would be cumbersome and disrupt a lot of soil needlessly.

Are you sure it was a CTL? Compact track loader or skid steer with tracks? If so it’s a really poor tool for digging 6’ deep.

 

[crashz]

Maybe he meant Tractor Loader Backhoe (TLB)?

Those are some meaty looking rocks. A compact tractor will have a heck of a time loosening and removing those without a lot of manual labor involved too. A construction TLB will work circles around a compact, doing earthwork. Just don't ask it to mow.

If it were me, I would buy an older Case 580 or Ford 555, preferably with 4wd. Do the heavy work with it and then if warranted, trade down to a smaller machine when you feel the backhoe is no longer needed.

 

[Teachu2]

Maybe he meant Tractor Loader Backhoe (TLB)?

Those are some meaty looking rocks. A compact tractor will have a heck of a time loosening and removing those without a lot of manual labor involved too. A construction TLB will work circles around a compact, doing earthwork. Just don't ask it to mow.

If it were me, I would buy an older Case 580 or Ford 555, preferably with 4wd. Do the heavy work with it and then if warranted, trade down to a smaller machine when you feel the backhoe is no longer needed.

You are correct - doing too many things at once. Construction TLB- a Cat 450F in this case.

 

[searcyfarms]

if you have big rocks you will not be digging with a cut very well - i have few limestone rocks here and it took me 5 hours to dig a 30 foot trench with a 12 inch bucket wiht a 5000lb mini excavator - i will rent a large machine next time i was worn out from wrestling controls and trying to maneuver the machine to get hte proper leverage to move the rocks and none were more than a couple hundred lbs nor more than 3 foot wide by 8 inches thick - ridiculous waste of time

 

[Coach v]

A construction backhoe would be stored outside, as most are around here. Eventually, I will get a 2nd bigger shop or carport. If I buy a CUT, it will most likely go in the current shop.

I can do most wrenching myself as long as it is not computers/electronics.

The rock in pick #3 was two rock bars, one shovel and a lot of sweat and muscle. That was just a few days ago.

When we built the house, I subbed out some of the trenching. The guy took two boulders bigger than a compact car out, he had to trench around a third.