edgarrian
Platinum Member
Personally I think you should rent an excavator and get these tasks done. However if you are not a competent operator then find a friend who is and have him do it
First decision: CUT vs construction backhoe
- Thread starter Coach v
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The problem is, not all the tasks will be done at the same time. Every year we will move several yards of sand and firewood to be moved.
. Every year there will be a snow to be moved and driveways to me fixed. Some water lines I will put in right away, like to the pigs, others will be later projects. Renting is costly as the nearest rental place is 70 miles away. Last time I rented, it was $250 each way for transport. I don't think renting is in my cards.
rScotty
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Shucks, that's not a problem; it's an opportunity to buy a tractor! ... or several.....
rScotty
That's what I am thinking. I am leaning towards a mid-size tractor loader backhoe, like the Kubota l39. I worry about it being shuttle shift and not hydrostatic.
I have driven hydrostatic tractors and they are easy. How do shuttle shift transmissions work? How are they on hills?
Richard
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- International 1066 Full sized JCB Loader/Backhoe and a John Deere 430 to mow with
Owning an industrial, I'm biased.
I talked to the wife for a couple years about getting a tractor. (my goal was something like a Kubota L series with loader/backhoe). She finally said "my brother (hers) has one for sale, why don't you go buy that??!!"
Jumped on it and it was the industrial.
It's what I learned on so it's really what I'm accustomed to using. I've since used (much) smaller tractor based machines and they are simply less capable. I don't recall the number, but I can reach something like 24 (maybe 21?) feet out with the hoe.... can go down to a two foot flat bottom at 15 1/2 feet deep. Not that I'm going that deep but, if I'm going 3-4 feet deep, I can reach out further and stay in same place longer to do that verses a smaller hoe.
Wife one day said Hernando (her fish) died...would I bury him? I grabbed a paper cup and was going to fling him into the woods. She was mortified....I had to BURY him... fine. Jumped on backhoe, drove to top of hill, took one scoop of dirt with backhoe (two feet wide) flung him in and dumped the dirt.
Different time, she pointed at some day-lillies and asked me to transplant them from "here" to "there". Jumped on machine, dug the "there" hole first, came back, scooped them up.....drove them over and placed them in the "there" hole. She again, was aghast.... saying I should use a shovel.
I said, I did. Just happened to be a powerful shovel. Besides....why have it if we don't use it??
(now that house is built, its use has greatly subsided)
Now, I'm not wanting to get rid of it and go smaller.... We live at the very end of dead-end road. During storms, trees sometimes fall across road and it will be hours before the county is out to clear them. I can get my chainsaw out and spend some time & energy cutting a swath through the tree so I can then go to work....OR, I can just fire up the machine, push tree out of the way and be done in 10 minutes with little energy spent. I can then deal with tree later in day on my terms.
Side note, during those kind of storms, I become the road checker....I drive down entire length of my road to make sure we can get out to the main road. Then, there's a development between the main road and myself....I drive up their way to make sure they are not blocked in by a fallen tree/branch. If they are, I scoot it out of their way and move on.
I guess this is more of a meandering post....if you read it, I guess you'll never get those 2-minutes of your life back.
I talked to the wife for a couple years about getting a tractor. (my goal was something like a Kubota L series with loader/backhoe). She finally said "my brother (hers) has one for sale, why don't you go buy that??!!"
Jumped on it and it was the industrial.
It's what I learned on so it's really what I'm accustomed to using. I've since used (much) smaller tractor based machines and they are simply less capable. I don't recall the number, but I can reach something like 24 (maybe 21?) feet out with the hoe.... can go down to a two foot flat bottom at 15 1/2 feet deep. Not that I'm going that deep but, if I'm going 3-4 feet deep, I can reach out further and stay in same place longer to do that verses a smaller hoe.
Wife one day said Hernando (her fish) died...would I bury him? I grabbed a paper cup and was going to fling him into the woods. She was mortified....I had to BURY him... fine. Jumped on backhoe, drove to top of hill, took one scoop of dirt with backhoe (two feet wide) flung him in and dumped the dirt.
Different time, she pointed at some day-lillies and asked me to transplant them from "here" to "there". Jumped on machine, dug the "there" hole first, came back, scooped them up.....drove them over and placed them in the "there" hole. She again, was aghast.... saying I should use a shovel.
I said, I did. Just happened to be a powerful shovel. Besides....why have it if we don't use it??
(now that house is built, its use has greatly subsided)
Now, I'm not wanting to get rid of it and go smaller.... We live at the very end of dead-end road. During storms, trees sometimes fall across road and it will be hours before the county is out to clear them. I can get my chainsaw out and spend some time & energy cutting a swath through the tree so I can then go to work....OR, I can just fire up the machine, push tree out of the way and be done in 10 minutes with little energy spent. I can then deal with tree later in day on my terms.
Side note, during those kind of storms, I become the road checker....I drive down entire length of my road to make sure we can get out to the main road. Then, there's a development between the main road and myself....I drive up their way to make sure they are not blocked in by a fallen tree/branch. If they are, I scoot it out of their way and move on.
I guess this is more of a meandering post....if you read it, I guess you'll never get those 2-minutes of your life back.
fried1765
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- Kubota L48 TLB, Ford 1920 FEL, 8N Ford, Gravely 12 HP "Professional", 48" SCAG Liberty
I have had a Ford 3400 TLB for the last 33 years.
Don't use it often, but when I do, I am SO thankful that I have it.
Two weeks ago I bought the older/smaller cousin to your M59: A 2006 L48 with 250 hours.
I consider it to be my slightly early 79th birthday present.
Sadly, I will sell the yellow Ford.
The orange machine has same 48 HP, but has 4wd, and is a lot newer.
4570Man
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A Kubota L39 or one of its cousin models sounds like a way better idea but any of them that are decent cost way more than 10k.
rScotty
Super Member
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- Rural mountains - Colorado
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- Kubota M59, JD530, JD310SG. Restoring Yanmar YM165D
We gotta get some common terminology down, first - we should make sure we are on the same page with definitions.
ALL tractors have something that functions as a clutch. It is either a traditonal foot clutch, a torque converter that only engages above an idle, or it is HST which works sort of like a torque converter.
Or the tractor may have a combination of these things. The very best modern HST have a torque converter function as well as a foot clutch.
More definition: A shuttle shift today means it has quick clutchless shifting between Forward and Reverse. That's all it means. There is also either a foot clutch or torque converter used for shifting between 1.2.3&4 gear speeds.
So with shuttleshift there is a fingertip lever - usually on the steering column - and on that lever are F&R positons...sometimes with Neutral in between the F&R. Moving that lever sends an electric signal to a hydraulic solenoid which then uses a tiny bit of hydraulic pressure in the transmission to shift a syncronized spur gear back and forth between Forwand and Reverse on the output shaft of the transmission.
It really is no different than if you could reach down and do the same thing with a manual lever on floor that was directly connected to that spur gear. In fact, early shuttle shifts were exactly that, which led to a confusing number of floor levers and they didn't always use syncronized gears.
Summing up the the shuttle shift, the simplest shuttle shift transmission has a normal foot clutch for starting off and selecting the major gears or ranges. Only the option for shuttling back and forth between F&R shuttle is "clutchless".... although you can then clutch with your foot once it engages.
Shuttle shifts generally engage pretty fast, even abruptly. I remember whipping along in road gear on our tractor and waved to some friends as I passed their house on our new tractor when I accidently hit the shuttle shift lever. The next thing I knew, the steering wheel hit me in the gut bending me over the dashboard and the tires were howling as the tractor went from full out forward to full reverse in a fraction of a second. Neighbors still laugh about it...
Shuttle shift can be a real rodeo on an icy/snowy hillside or driveway just because it is abrupt at the very moment when what you want is slow careful power & gear changes. If it also has a foot cluch you can make it work by simply staying in a gear, coming to a stop, and using the foot clutch. It's just a skill to develop.
Now a Powershift is basically a shuttleshift that also puts all the gears in each range up on that fingertip lever and you shift through them similarly to how a shuttle shift works.
The difference is that instead of F&R on the fingertip lever you will have something like: 1,2,3,4 & Reverse. Reverse is a separate speed, usually equivalent to 2nd but moves you backwards of course. It's common for Powershift to also have 1 to 4 overall "Ranges" that are selected by a lever on the floor.
Of course a Powershift still has to have some sort of a clutch. So it will have either a traditional foot clutch or a clutchless torque converter which allows you to stop in gear as the motor slows to an idle. Some machines had both. Those are the best for hillside work.
For hillside work with a powershift you really need one with a foot clutch to reduce the rodeo effect that you can have with a heavy machine which has nothing but a torque converter.
Our old 2006 vintage JD310SG commercial backhoe has powershift and a torque converter but no foot clutch. It has 1,2,3 & Rev. on a powershift lever on the steering column and a torque converter that engages with a lurch. That backhoe can be downright scary on slick hillsides. JD also offered the same machine with a standard transmission, foot clutch, and a shuttle shift. That is a much better combo on slick hillsides than what we have on ours. Ours still scares me sometimes.
Yes, the HST transmissions are really convenient and are way better now than they used to be. Most now have automatic "return to idle" and "load sensing" - which means that the engine automatically revs to meet the load. But the old ones didn't always have those features. Even so they were better than that pure torque converter and powershift combo on hills, but not as good as an old style foot clutch and manual transmission for adding power controllably.
The very best of the Powershift of HST have a traditional foot clutch as well. Our Kubota M59 comes that way. It is a treat on slick hillsides. Very controllable.
BTW, even with the best of the options on a slick hillside, it all goes into rodeo mode again when you try to put on the brakes. Tractors only have brakes on the back wheels and they not only lock up easily they can swing you from side to side - that's part of why 4wd is an absolute necessity for working on slick hillsides.
rScotty
ALL tractors have something that functions as a clutch. It is either a traditonal foot clutch, a torque converter that only engages above an idle, or it is HST which works sort of like a torque converter.
Or the tractor may have a combination of these things. The very best modern HST have a torque converter function as well as a foot clutch.
More definition: A shuttle shift today means it has quick clutchless shifting between Forward and Reverse. That's all it means. There is also either a foot clutch or torque converter used for shifting between 1.2.3&4 gear speeds.
So with shuttleshift there is a fingertip lever - usually on the steering column - and on that lever are F&R positons...sometimes with Neutral in between the F&R. Moving that lever sends an electric signal to a hydraulic solenoid which then uses a tiny bit of hydraulic pressure in the transmission to shift a syncronized spur gear back and forth between Forwand and Reverse on the output shaft of the transmission.
It really is no different than if you could reach down and do the same thing with a manual lever on floor that was directly connected to that spur gear. In fact, early shuttle shifts were exactly that, which led to a confusing number of floor levers and they didn't always use syncronized gears.
Summing up the the shuttle shift, the simplest shuttle shift transmission has a normal foot clutch for starting off and selecting the major gears or ranges. Only the option for shuttling back and forth between F&R shuttle is "clutchless".... although you can then clutch with your foot once it engages.
Shuttle shifts generally engage pretty fast, even abruptly. I remember whipping along in road gear on our tractor and waved to some friends as I passed their house on our new tractor when I accidently hit the shuttle shift lever. The next thing I knew, the steering wheel hit me in the gut bending me over the dashboard and the tires were howling as the tractor went from full out forward to full reverse in a fraction of a second. Neighbors still laugh about it...
Shuttle shift can be a real rodeo on an icy/snowy hillside or driveway just because it is abrupt at the very moment when what you want is slow careful power & gear changes. If it also has a foot cluch you can make it work by simply staying in a gear, coming to a stop, and using the foot clutch. It's just a skill to develop.
Now a Powershift is basically a shuttleshift that also puts all the gears in each range up on that fingertip lever and you shift through them similarly to how a shuttle shift works.
The difference is that instead of F&R on the fingertip lever you will have something like: 1,2,3,4 & Reverse. Reverse is a separate speed, usually equivalent to 2nd but moves you backwards of course. It's common for Powershift to also have 1 to 4 overall "Ranges" that are selected by a lever on the floor.
Of course a Powershift still has to have some sort of a clutch. So it will have either a traditional foot clutch or a clutchless torque converter which allows you to stop in gear as the motor slows to an idle. Some machines had both. Those are the best for hillside work.
For hillside work with a powershift you really need one with a foot clutch to reduce the rodeo effect that you can have with a heavy machine which has nothing but a torque converter.
Our old 2006 vintage JD310SG commercial backhoe has powershift and a torque converter but no foot clutch. It has 1,2,3 & Rev. on a powershift lever on the steering column and a torque converter that engages with a lurch. That backhoe can be downright scary on slick hillsides. JD also offered the same machine with a standard transmission, foot clutch, and a shuttle shift. That is a much better combo on slick hillsides than what we have on ours. Ours still scares me sometimes.
Yes, the HST transmissions are really convenient and are way better now than they used to be. Most now have automatic "return to idle" and "load sensing" - which means that the engine automatically revs to meet the load. But the old ones didn't always have those features. Even so they were better than that pure torque converter and powershift combo on hills, but not as good as an old style foot clutch and manual transmission for adding power controllably.
The very best of the Powershift of HST have a traditional foot clutch as well. Our Kubota M59 comes that way. It is a treat on slick hillsides. Very controllable.
BTW, even with the best of the options on a slick hillside, it all goes into rodeo mode again when you try to put on the brakes. Tractors only have brakes on the back wheels and they not only lock up easily they can swing you from side to side - that's part of why 4wd is an absolute necessity for working on slick hillsides.
rScotty
4570Man
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- Kubota M59, Kubota L3800, Grasshopper 428D, Topkick dump truck, 3500 dump truck, 10 ton trailer, more lighter trailers.
My full-size backhoe has a stick on the steering column with 1-4 gears and 1-4 gears in reverse. There’s no such rodeo action. It’s much smoother than gear drive with a clutch. Probably 99 percent as smooth and precise as a HST. I can hit my machine in 1st gear and it won’t move until I let off the brake. You can easily ease up on the brake for precise movements. Pretty much identical to an automatic transmission vehicle except I have all gears in reverse. Not that that’s a useful feature. I’d rate the power shift in my backhoe or whatever term you want to call it as being equal to a HST. There’s no foot clutch in the backhoe. You’ve got neutral and a button on the loader stick that engages neutral.