Particulate filter delete

[Paystar]

How long do you think you could breath diesel soot without permanent effects?

48 years now. And I'm still here in perfect health.

 

[rScotty]

you have the same problem I do...elevation. there is not enough oxygen molecules in the air at that altitude to keep the motor at stoically optimal fuel air ratios. turbos do help with the air problem, but the root cause is too much fuel.

Turn down the fuel a little bit.

I had hoped that the turbo would help with that.
rScotty

 

[Whitbread]

As someone with degrees in diesel technology, alternative fuel technology, and mech engineering, one of the biggest problems in the current diesel emissions battle is the fuel. It's the equivalent of trying to get a pile of wet leaves to burn clean.

The current egr/dpf/scr systems would have zero business on most diesels (especially off highway equipment) if the government would simply mandate a diesel fuel standard equivalent to Propel's HPR diesel. It is 75 cetane rated fuel with an automatic 40+% reduction in greenhouse gases, 15-20% reduction in nox, 35% reduction in particulates, below zero gel point, and is 99% renewable. It's sold on the west coast and I run it every time I can when I'm out there for vacation. It truly is amazing stuff in a late model common rail diesel that's been made to breathe easy.

Butttttt, we'll never see it happen because the oil companies and the gov't are far too cuddly with each other. They both absolutely love the current emissions mandates, more diesel is sold, more fuel taxes collected, more plastic is made/sold for Def cans, more diesel is burned to transport Def, and one of the biggest things is that all the chemical plants across the country now have a waste product (that they used to have to pay to get rid of) that's suddenly clear gold. So everybody but the consumer wins.

In my semi professional opinion, with the fuel mandate, direct injection common rail or electronic unit injection, a DOC, and substainlly more boost at full load from small compounds would make for very low emissions and keep egts low so nox levels would stay low. Mechanical IDI non turbo diesels should go the way of the dinosaurs for anything that a person sits on.

 

[rScotty]

As someone with degrees in diesel technology, alternative fuel technology, and mech engineering.....
.

Great! So what is your opinion on my Kubota M59 making so much stinky soot? It is a 60 hp, 4 cylinder, turbocharged 2007 Interim Tier 4, EGR motor in good condition - but it smokes too much.

Specialized diesel fuel is NOT easily available where we live - in fact it is very rare.

So since this motor is destined to use pump diesel, What would you change, anything? Will the soot turn to carbon and destructively plate onto pistons & valve guides?....or is the soot just a stinky nusiance?
rScotty

 

[finn1]

you have the same problem I do...elevation. there is not enough oxygen molecules in the air at that altitude to keep the motor at stoically optimal fuel air ratios. turbos do help with the air problem, but the root cause is too much fuel.

Turn down the fuel a little bit.

Turbo engines are, to a large extent, of compensating for altitude. To simplify the explanation, the atmospheric pressure drops with increasing altitude, so both the pressure at the inlet to the compressor and the back pressure on the turbine go down, and the rotating assembly spins faster, effectively compensating for the lower atmospheric pressure by producing more boost.

That works fine as long as the compressor doesn稚 cross the surge line, in which case the electronics can be calibrated to reduce injector pulse width, ie trim fuel delivery痴.

A properly calibrated common rail diesel will not emit black smoke at altitude if the calibrat IS done correctly by the engine manufacturer.

Take your tractor to the dealer and have them fix it. Could be any number of things in the fuel or air systems, but I would hook up to the diagnostic port and look at the map sensor first.

For some reason you are overfueling or low on boost.

 

[finn1]

How long do you think you could breath diesel soot without permanent effects?

48 years now. And I'm still here in perfect health.

Another trained health scientist, I am guessing.

 

[Oldoak]

Butttttt, we'll never see it happen because the oil companies and the gov't are far too cuddly with each other. They both absolutely love the current emissions mandates, more diesel is sold, more fuel taxes collected, more plastic is made/sold for Def cans, more diesel is burned to transport Def, and one of the biggest things is that all the chemical plants across the country now have a waste product (that they used to have to pay to get rid of) that's suddenly clear gold. So everybody but the consumer wins.

Like the old adage says: "Follow the money". Which applies to politics as well!

 

[Ortimber]

As someone with degrees in diesel technology, alternative fuel technology, and mech engineering, one of the biggest problems in the current diesel emissions battle is the fuel. It's the equivalent of trying to get a pile of wet leaves to burn clean.

The current egr/dpf/scr systems would have zero business on most diesels (especially off highway equipment) if the government would simply mandate a diesel fuel standard equivalent to Propel's HPR diesel. It is 75 cetane rated fuel with an automatic 40+% reduction in greenhouse gases, 15-20% reduction in nox, 35% reduction in particulates, below zero gel point, and is 99% renewable. It's sold on the west coast and I run it every time I can when I'm out there for vacation. It truly is amazing stuff in a late model common rail diesel that's been made to breathe easy.

Butttttt, we'll never see it happen because the oil companies and the gov't are far too cuddly with each other. They both absolutely love the current emissions mandates, more diesel is sold, more fuel taxes collected, more plastic is made/sold for Def cans, more diesel is burned to transport Def, and one of the biggest things is that all the chemical plants across the country now have a waste product (that they used to have to pay to get rid of) that's suddenly clear gold. So everybody but the consumer wins.

In my semi professional opinion, with the fuel mandate, direct injection common rail or electronic unit injection, a DOC, and substainlly more boost at full load from small compounds would make for very low emissions and keep egts low so nox levels would stay low. Mechanical IDI non turbo diesels should go the way of the dinosaurs for anything that a person sits on.

Interesting, I've never heard of HPR diesel. Thanks for sharing.

 

[Paystar]

Another trained health scientist, I am guessing.

Don't need to be a health scientist. I just wake up every morning and go about my life.

I even touch used oil with my bare hands!!!! OMG

 

[rScotty]

Turbo engines are, to a large extent, of compensating for altitude. To simplify the explanation, the atmospheric pressure drops with increasing altitude, so both the pressure at the inlet to the compressor and the back pressure on the turbine go down, and the rotating assembly spins faster, effectively compensating for the lower atmospheric pressure by producing more boost.

That works fine as long as the compressor doesn稚 cross the surge line, in which case the electronics can be calibrated to reduce injector pulse width, ie trim fuel delivery痴.

A properly calibrated common rail diesel will not emit black smoke at altitude if the calibrat IS done correctly by the engine manufacturer.

Take your tractor to the dealer and have them fix it. Could be any number of things in the fuel or air systems, but I would hook up to the diagnostic port and look at the map sensor first.

For some reason you are overfueling or low on boost.

OK.Thanks for the info. I think your theory is a good one - overfueling or low on boost. What would be the effect of changing each be on engine temperature? Any downside to experimenting?

It would be real nice if I could simply take it to the dealer. Unfortunately my local dealer doesn't have technical people in his service dept. He had one years ago, but the lad went off to college to become a mech engineer. Today if the problem it is more than routine maintenance they are in danger of being stumped. The techs I've talked to certainly don't understand such things at pressure, boost, and the reasons for overlapped cam profiles. As for tools, I doubt seriously that they have any type of diagnostic equipment past a VOM. I know for a fact the dealer doesn't even have a hydraulic flowmeter to work on that all-important aspect of tractors. They are a "if in doubt, replace the part" type of mechanical shop.

What I am saying is that they would be learning, with all that implies. And if someone has to do the learning I'd prefer that it be msyself. At least I then know who is responsible for my own ignorance.
Is the Kubota diagnostic computers a machine or is it just an interface & program like for cars? One that works with any computer. That would make the most sense. How do I obtain one and some service info? Are there independent diagnostic people who might come out and map the sensors?

As much as I would like to just put the problem into someone else's hands, that's just not practical here. What I've done in similar instances in the past is to first study tech manuals, then buy the tools, study the manuals some more, and fix it myself. It's an older Kubota - i.e. pretty simple technology. Can anyone help get me started with this? It's probably something we could all benefit from.

Come to think of it, a TBN forum addressing sensor interface and mapping might be interesting to lots of modern tractor owners - just like tuning carbs was to my generation.
rScotty

 

[Whitbread]

Great! So what is your opinion on my Kubota M59 making so much stinky soot? It is a 60 hp, 4 cylinder, turbocharged 2007 Interim Tier 4, EGR motor in good condition - but it smokes too much.

Specialized diesel fuel is NOT easily available where we live - in fact it is very rare.

So since this motor is destined to use pump diesel, What would you change, anything? Will the soot turn to carbon and destructively plate onto pistons & valve guides?....or is the soot just a stinky nusiance?
rScotty

Forgive me as I'm not at all familiar with your tractor, is it mechanical or fully electronic? If mechanical, then turning fuel down a touch will be easy. If it's electronic, snap a picture of the ecm part number on the outside of the ecu case and I'll talk to some friends.

 

[finn1]

If it痴 an older machine with a mechanical fuel system there won稚 be a diagnostic port....electronics make things so much easier, despite what some of the old timers here think...

Anyway, I am not familiar with older Kubota equipment, but here are a couple of things to look at, based on the old Diesels I am familiar with.

A turbo engine shouldn稚 smoke under steady state conditions under load, as long as the injection pump hasn稚 been messed with. It may smoke some on acceleration if it has an incorrectly adjusted aneroid (which is sometimes called a puff eliminator.).

If it smokes under load, the injectors may be faulty, or the timing may be retarded. Retarded timing may also show up as white smoke under cold starting and light load operation.

Retarded timing could be the result of low fuel pressure, sometimes related to filter plugging, with some fuel injection systems that rely on fuel pressure to operate the timing advance mechanism.

Low cetane fuel also contributes to white smoke, particularly at high altitudes, as does low cylinder pressure from worn piston rings.

For a black smoke issue, though, if the air filter and fuel filters are clean and the engine is developing adequate boost, I would first pull the injectors and bring them to a diesel shop and have them pop tested and check the spray pattern for obvious inconsistencies.

 

[ericm979]

Propel's HPR diesel. It is 75 cetane rated fuel with an automatic 40+% reduction in greenhouse gases, 15-20% reduction in nox, 35% reduction in particulates, below zero gel point, and is 99% renewable. It's sold on the west coast and I run it every time I can when I'm out there for vacation. It truly is amazing stuff in a late model common rail diesel that's been made to breathe easy.

First I have heard of it. It sounds great and there's stations not too far from me. Thanks for mentioning it.

My Branson's a dinosaur swirl chamber mechanical injection but with with a DOC+DPF for Tier 4. It sounds like with HPR I'd still get a bit more power from higher cetane and less soot for the DPF to deal with? Or is it not worth the bother?

 

[finn1]

Higher cetane won’t give you more power, as long as the cetane og your current fuel is so low that you have misfire going on.

Power is primarily a function of specific gravity of the fuel.

I have not heard of a commercially available 75 cetane fuel.

I do know there was a contingency of engine manufacturers pushing for specs in the 50-59 range, but I have been retired for a while, so I don’t know what derailed that proposal.

I assume it was cost and pushback from the petroleum companies.

 

[DrRighteous]

Greets all.
Looks like I'm buying my brother in laws L3301 Kubota which is only a year old and he can't make the payments. My little Allis Chalmbers 5020 is just too light weight for the jobs that need to be done here.
My experience is only with older tractors so I started doing some research and almost fell out of my chair when I found that this diesel tractor are equipped with DPF devices now!~!! WTH!! So my first course of action will be to remove/disable it somehow.

 

[ericm979]

Tractors under 75hp have easier to meet emissions limits than diesel pickups. Their emissions systems are simpler. They don't require DEF and generally don't cause reliability problems. There's been a few models that have had issues but the L3301 is not one of them. Follow the manual and use it hard every once in a while and it'll be fine. And you'll enjoy the cleaner exhaust.

 

[mopardude318]

Here is an Ebay link where you send your ECU to this company and they do a DPF delete. They advertise for the Kubota M7060. Did someone finally crack the Kubota computer?

KUBOTA M7 DPF EGR DELETE MAIL IN ECU SERVICE KUBOTA DPF DELETE | eBay

 

[edgarrian]

Personally I think the DPF is a sacrifice that the consumer has to pay for. Basically were on the hook. Im really surprised how many people turned this into a climate discussion as far as keeping the air clean. People suggesting that DPF will only help my KIDS in the future. Personally I hate when people use their kids to support ideas. Just stand up and give your opinion and don't use your child to enforce your opinion. Your child will likely have differing opinions once they become an adult. Id also like to point out that all my grandparents lived well into their 80's. All while breathing in that black soot that some of you are so worried about.

 

[1010]

How long has diesel engines been around? And people using them? I'm pretty sure if they were causing cancer it'd be pretty obvious.. Stop drinking the cool-aid..
Back on topic..

Does any have a video of this delete being done on a 5075e or similar. Other than removing the BS filter and re-programming, what else is there? Blocking off EGR?
If this would help fuel mileage it'd have to be a big win.. I can burn 17 gallons in less then a day..

 

[finn1]

How long has diesel engines been around? And people using them? I'm pretty sure if they were causing cancer it'd be pretty obvious.. Stop drinking the cool-aid..
Back on topic..

Does any have a video of this delete being done on a 5075e or similar. Other than removing the BS filter and re-programming, what else is there? Blocking off EGR?
If this would help fuel mileage it'd have to be a big win.. I can burn 17 gallons in less then a day..

Data linking diesel exhaust has been around for decades. Including early studies from the London bus garages.

You can’t put your head in the sand and ignore science.