NX6010 suction side hydro leak

[YLee Kioti]

Really interested to hear the results of this test. I'm the OP, and, if you read my report a few weeks back, I'm sorry to say, the bubbles are back. This time it's "big bubbles" but not that many of them. Machine seems to be performing well, it's a tiny bit jerky when I first start it, but it settles down in seconds and I don't feel the slips or jumpiness anymore.[COLOR="#FF8C00"[B]]Upon start up the bucket hops as it seems like the FEL system is empty and then fills up. Mostly happens on first start up in the morning or after a hour-two hour shut down.[/B][/COLOR] However, remembering back, this is how my machine was when it was brand new. [B]It always had a tiny jump in the hydraulics when it was first started[/B], that progressively got worse as time went on. It's also temperature sensitive, it's real hot out now, [B]the colder it gets the worse it got[/B] (last time), so... I'm not sure what to think. [COLOR="#FF8C00"]Very disturbing when hooking up or adjusting BB that the 3PT jumps or hops. BTW, also when driving out from the shop in reverse, the tractor stutters/jerks when slowly driving out. Only in reverse, not in forward. after it warms up it lessens.[/COLOR] Right after the housing replacement (~75 hours ago) there was -0-, NOT A SINGLE bubble in that line. It looks like good whiskey running through, honestly, you couldn't even perceive the fluid was moving because it was so consistent. As time has passed (on the new housing) the bubble is starting to reappear. Which makes me wonder if we're dealing with someone that's more wear related than "bad casting/bad part" related. It's like the filter housing is "wearing out". I have no idea how a chunk of steel with 2 banjo fittings and a place to screw in a filter "wears out", but.. That's the behavior that I'm seeing. I'll try to shoot some video of where it stands today, you'll see the bubbles, I probably won't be able to catch the "jumps" on video because they are (today anyway) very very slight, you'd never feel them if you didn't know what to listen/feel for.

Disappointed... Maybe it is "normal" to have a little air in that line, and perhaps the machine with stabilize here and never get worse. It's working fine, so, if that happens, I wouldn't really care. But I can tell you, no doubt about it, right after we changed that housing, there was NOT a single bubble in that line, and it stayed that way for hours and hours of operation (I checked it every time I ran the machine). No "air sucking" sound in the sump, no foamed up oil, none of it. Just like my other tractor.

Guess now, I think there's perhaps something wrong with the way they are molding that part. Something wrong with the metal perhaps, that's causing it to crack (microscopically, of course) after some number of heat/cool cycles would be my best guess.

Thanks for the detailed report. Being a OCD 45+year maintenance hand, thought maybe I was just being to picky. You described my machine to the -T. So when it goes in for the 400 hour valve lash check, these details will be brought up. Also noticed that even after a 6 hour run of the cutter; had parked machine with cutter full up to wash out the deck. The 3-pt jumped/hopped, maybe on a three-four minute intervals.
As much as I really, really like this machine, (yeah all colors do have their own issues eh...lol) it really bother me that a fundamental hydraulic function should not be an issue at all.
So is this another cost savings engineering snafu?, in basic design, parts, systems? Rhetorical question of course because no vendor monitors our forums, nor would ever provide an honest answer.
I think the only real recourse we have is to walk that fine line of keeping the issue up front with dealer without pissing off our dealer support.
I'll be posting an update in the late fall after the engine check and then work the machine for a few hours afterwards to see how it performs.
Have a great week and don't let youth supersede that outdoor heat index stay time...lol

 

[justman777]

Overtaxed---Does your tractor "jump" when you first start it up, like right after the engine catches? If so, mine does the same thing. On mine, it's the three point jumping back to the set height. To test, drop your three point to the lowest level and let it sit overnight and see if it "jumps" the next day. I believe the MLS is allowing the three point to leak down. I've already replaced mine once due to it leaking down while I was running an implement, and intermittently (every 3-5 minutes) jumping back to the set height. It stayed okay for a bit, but then I noticed it doing it again the last time I as carrying the shredder. Looks like I'm due for another replacement...

Think my next test will be to temporarily bypass the filter housing using a piece of clear tubing and clamps in place of the filter housing and filter. If it's the filter housing, I shouldn't have any bubbles.

 

[Overtaxed]

Overtaxed---Does your tractor "jump" when you first start it up, like right after the engine catches? If so, mine does the same thing. On mine, it's the three point jumping back to the set height. To test, drop your three point to the lowest level and let it sit overnight and see if it "jumps" the next day. I believe the MLS is allowing the three point to leak down. I've already replaced mine once due to it leaking down while I was running an implement, and intermittently (every 3-5 minutes) jumping back to the set height. It stayed okay for a bit, but then I noticed it doing it again the last time I as carrying the shredder. Looks like I'm due for another replacement...

Think my next test will be to temporarily bypass the filter housing using a piece of clear tubing and clamps in place of the filter housing and filter. If it's the filter housing, I shouldn't have any bubbles.

Yes, mine did that too. I suspect what's happening there, the bubbles in the line work their way out when the machine isn't running, changing the volume in the cylinders. When you restart, the cylinders aren't as full as they should be (because the air bubbled out) and they get pressurized back to where they belong. I can see this with my 3PT just like yours when I have a lot of bubbles in the line. Like I mentioned a few weeks back, I have a "few" bubbles now (about 50-100 hours after the housing replacement) and it's not jumping on startup, but, when I had a lot of bubbles, yes, it was doing exactly what you described.

What is the "MLS"? Sorry, may have missed it, but I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. And yes, your test will be very illustrative (unfortunately, also a bit of PITA to set up with all the fluid draining). You're correct, after you bypass, I would expect that all the bubbles (and jumping) will go away immediately. Please keep us all up to date, obviously no longer a "one tractor" issue.

 

[wdchyd]

Sorry for not reading the entire thread.......but have you considered the pump shaft seal could be worn and sucking air into the suction side of the pump? I’m not it familiar with your exact machine but this does happen on other machines. Packing grease around the shaft seal sometimes helps to troubleshoot that condition.

 

[justman777]

Yes, mine did that too. I suspect what's happening there, the bubbles in the line work their way out when the machine isn't running, changing the volume in the cylinders. When you restart, the cylinders aren't as full as they should be (because the air bubbled out) and they get pressurized back to where they belong. I can see this with my 3PT just like yours when I have a lot of bubbles in the line. Like I mentioned a few weeks back, I have a "few" bubbles now (about 50-100 hours after the housing replacement) and it's not jumping on startup, but, when I had a lot of bubbles, yes, it was doing exactly what you described.

What is the "MLS"? Sorry, may have missed it, but I just want to make sure we're talking about the same thing. And yes, your test will be very illustrative (unfortunately, also a bit of PITA to set up with all the fluid draining). You're correct, after you bypass, I would expect that all the bubbles (and jumping) will go away immediately. Please keep us all up to date, obviously no longer a "one tractor" issue.

From what I understand, the MLS is a valve body that controls hydraulic functions. It's right under the seat in most tractors, and is directly attached to the knob that that controls the rate of descent for the three point---right below the operator's seat.

 

[justman777]

Sorry for not reading the entire thread.......but have you considered the pump shaft seal could be worn and sucking air into the suction side of the pump? I’m not it familiar with your exact machine but this does happen on other machines. Packing grease around the shaft seal sometimes helps to troubleshoot that condition.

Yep! I was reading that in another thread a few weeks back and discussed it with my dealer's technician. I wanted to rule out the other components of the suction line before I replaced the pump, simply because it looked to be pretty hard to get too. I'm doing all this work myself primarily because my dealer is 2 hours away from me, and I like knowing what was done to my equipment. Don't mind learning a thing or two along the way either. If it gets to where the pump is looking more like the culprit (eliminated most everything else), I may load the tractor up and take it in.

 

[Overtaxed]

Sorry for not reading the entire thread.......but have you considered the pump shaft seal could be worn and sucking air into the suction side of the pump? I知 not it familiar with your exact machine but this does happen on other machines. Packing grease around the shaft seal sometimes helps to troubleshoot that condition.

When the dealer and I saw the bubbles in the suction line (after replacing the OEM fitting with a clear one) we both thought "pump". He called Kioti and they insisted he replace the filter housing before they'd send a pump. We both thought it was a waste of time, but, Kioti insisted, so.. We replaced it. And it completely fixed the problem. Went from having "milk" in the line (foamed up hydro fluid) to not a single bubble. Whiskey clear hydro fluid. Both of us were shocked, but, kind of makes sense, Kioti knows there's a problem in some of the housings, which is why they made us replace it. Case closed.

At least it was, until a few weeks ago when the bubbles came back (for me). Similar symptoms, and, since I still have the clear line in there, I can see the bubbles again. It's different this time, they are bigger bubbles, but, because I didn't have the clear line in before when this started (it got progressively worse), this might just be the first stage of the problem. Hydrualics feel mostly good, but there's slight jumping again. I'm guessing I "wore out" another filter housing because the symptoms are so similar, but, it certainly could be the pump this time. I can tell you, for sure, it was NOT the pump the first time, it was the filter housing.

 

[justman777]

I noticed yesterday when I was in low and backing up, my tractor "stuttered" as well. Like it was catching and then not catching. Went through the pedal calibration procedure and results were the same. I have large bubbles going through the clear suction line, and the trans is making some pretty annoying (and loud) sounds.

YLee, if you get a chance to chat with Jordan or Cody (mechanic) at Paige Tractor, let them know you're experiencing the same thing as I am. I'll PM you my first name, and they'll know who it is right away. Seems like I've been on the phone or trading emails with them at least once a week.

 

[YLee Kioti]

Sent yah a PM Justman777....we'll stay in touch.

 

[Threepoint]

Sent yah a PM Justman777....we'll stay in touch.

YLee, Overtaxed and Justman - I've been following this thread, and I'm really sorry you're having these issues. As you keep in touch among yourselves, please do check in once in awhile with the rest of us NX owners on how this plays out. We all benefit from having the shared info. :thumbsup:

I've run my NX hard for 4-1/2 yrs old, and fortunately haven't had any hydraulic problems beyond a pesky leak from the ORB fitting at the input port of the joystick valve body. But that alone impressed on me how annoying a recurring problem can be. After replacing the 0-ring several times over a one-year period, which would temporarily stop the leak, I finally realized there had to be a slight machining discrepancy in the ORB fitting itself. The captured flat washer that compresses the 0-ring against the boss in the valve body had an internal diameter that was slightly too large. That allowed part of the 0-ring eventually to distort out of position. I replaced the whole fitting for $27, and problem was finally solved.