Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #141  
Oh the cost of those batteries!

Anyone familiar with the cost of constructing A nuclear plant including the raw materials required, the regular maintenance procedures and cost of spent fuel disposal. Chump change some would say.

Looks like you are mistaken sir. A nuclear plant can power 740,000 homes. The cost is from 6-9 billion. The cost to install batteries alone in 740,000 homes at $20,000 would be 18.5 billion. At a minimum I would say it is more economical.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #142  
Looks like you are mistaken sir. A nuclear plant can power 740,000 homes. The cost is from 6-9 billion.
In 2016 the government increased its cost estimate to about $75.7 billion, part of the overall Fukushima disaster price tag of $202.5 billion. The Japan Center for Economic Research, a private think tank, said the cleanup costs could mount to some $470 billion to $660 billion, however.Mar 9, 2018
Clearing the Radioactive Rubble Heap That Was Fukushima ...
Science News, Articles, and Information - Scientific American
There's a place for nuclear, France runs mostly on nuclear. But some of the costs get ignored at the planning stage ....
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#143  
You think you will soon see 1000mile range EV痴 ??? What make you 鍍hink that ?
Of course retailers will install chargers . It is about EV drivers being forced to park in front of a business while the batteries charge . Where will a person kill time while having their vehicles charged ?

If you are calling ten years down the road 'soon' then sure. All one has to look at the trend lines now that EV's are going mainstream. The first Nissan range was 74 miles and it is 300 miles in their new EV lines coming out in 2021. That is a 400% increase over the past 10 years for just that one EV maker. If that rate holds then in 2030 could be more like 1200 miles of range.

Then there is non stop charging options for perhaps 100,000 miles between visits to a charging station?
World's first electrified road for charging vehicles opens in Sweden | Environment | The Guardian

Consider reading up on the subject of EV's and how they are changing transportation. Dumping 800 gallons of gas for every 1000 gallons one buys is not friendly to we humans and other animal groups.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #144  
Are Electric Cars Bad for the Environment? - Going Zero Waste

5030 this article addresses some false myths out there about EV's that impact all of us.

Propaganda. Innuendo. Spin. Same sort of fluff you find on VOX and Huffington Post. Its written in the style of an infomercial or a Baptist sermon. Preaching to the true believers, not written to make a good argument.

One fact that jumped out at me about the 20% efficiency of gas engines and that peaks at 38% in some Toyota small engines.

I burnt 36 gallons of gas in the 2010 F-150 with the 5.4L engine to go look at, drive and get the 2016 Leaf home (3300 pounds). Let us call it 25% efficient. That meant I used 9 gallons to do the work and dumped 27 gallons into the air for us all to breath. Who would go pour 27 gallons of gas out on the ground?

EV's are more like 85% efficient with energy.

As a retired mechanical engineer I say, "So what? They are fearmongering the ignorant." What matters is the cost of getting the job done. No man works for free, this makes Capitalist resource allocation the fairest and most accurate measure of resource consumption on Earth. At every step of the way everyone involved demands to be paid a fair price for their time, effort, investments, and resources contributed.

Consider gasoline at $2.50/gallon. That is 1/3rd of an hour of a minimum wage employee to produce. Does that put in perspective just how few resources are consumed? I don't know of any minimum wage employee who could make 3 gallons of gasoline an hour, or do anything close to 3 gallons of work. You know oil workers are paid 10x or more than that. Its an amazing value.

Now consider you couldn't even drive your new LEAF home, it had to be trailered. Didn't really have to be trailered but you made the economic and environmental decision to burn 36 gallons of gasoline for your convenience.

Quick search suggests your 30 kWh battery will charge from low battery warning to 80% in 30 minutes at a 50 kW CHAdeMO charger. LBW is about 20 miles? 80% of 107 miles is 86, so 66 miles of range in 30 minutes. So if CHAdeMO charging was available at optimal positions and starting with a full charge you could have got home with 2 stops of 30 minutes each. Best you could hope for realistically was 3 stops because the chargers are probably not optimally spaced and not on your direct route.

Walmart in Paducah is the nearest CHAdeMO to Murray. Cost is $1.00 plus $0.21/minute for less than 75 kW rate. LEAF charges at 50 kW on CHAdeMO. That will be $7.30 for 30 minutes for 66 miles. That is cost equivalent of 22 MPG at $2.50/gallon. "But remember you are saving the Earth!"

Guessing your 2016 LEAF cost about $13,000. The LEAF is notorious for battery degradation due to lack of thermal management. Conversely a Tesla battery is bathed in propylene glycol coolant and has electric heaters. Seems the 30 kWh is worse than the 24: Nissan LEAF 3-kWh Battery Degrades More Rapidly Than 24-kWh Pack

Consider the article and see if like me the ethics of ICE usage may become harder to breath.

The author clearly has no technical background and writes of things she does not know. Repeats disproven claims. Hey, if copper mining is so bad then how about the wiring in your house? The electric motor in your clothes washer? One obvious thing she misses is how copper, cobalt, lithium, etc, are not consumed. They are perfectly recyclable.

I grew up on poor dirt farms and spent the summers in the tobacco patch to help keep a roof over our family's heads. Over the years I came to understand my redneck thoughts on energy usage was not in the best interest of my kids who are now 22.

EV's are not perfect but they may be better than wasting up to 80% of the gas that we buy. The ICE is on its way out over time so EV's need to be understood and made more safe for the environment.

You do not waste gasoline if you use it for something useful. Its basic engineering. "This is what you get from gasoline." Unless you can use gasoline for something which is more useful then your use is not wasted. You drove an F-150 and wasted gasoline that could have been used in a Prius at 50 MPG. But you don't have a Prius. And you couldn't realistically tow the LEAF with a Prius. However I know a man who bought an airplane and towed it several hundred miles home with his Prius.

Disclaimer: I have been a Tesla owner for 6 years. Its a heck of a lot of fun but it is not saving the Earth. It represents $100,000 of consumption that will never be recovered vs the Prius it replaced. I put $100k in somebodys' pockets who will spend it no different than the petroleum worker will spend what I pay for gasoline.

I have free lifetime use of Tesla Superchargers. I can drive across the country for the cost of food, lodging, and tire rubber. My Tesla doesn't have to stop to charge during a 200 mile drive, but quickest way here to there is to stop with 30-40 miles remaining every 100-140 miles and only charge to reach the next Supercharger. Battery charges much faster when it is low than full (which is 265 miles).
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #145  
If you are calling ten years down the road 'soon' then sure. All one has to look at the trend lines now that EV's are going mainstream. The first Nissan range was 74 miles and it is 300 miles in their new EV lines coming out in 2021. That is a 400% increase over the past 10 years for just that one EV maker. If that rate holds then in 2030 could be more like 1200 miles of range.

Lame. Tesla had over 200 miles in 2007. The only reason Nissan had only 74 miles is because Nissan is cheap and decided, "this is all you need! 97% never use more than this!" And all Nissan needed was to sell EVs for credits which permitted them to continue selling ICE vehicles in California. That is why your LEAF was so cheap, Nissan subsidizes 2 year leases, then is forced to dump vehicles coming off-lease. A 2 year old Fiat 500e brings about $5000 on the wholesale lots. LEAF is $8k to $10k.

Then there is non stop charging options for perhaps 100,000 miles between visits to a charging station?
World's first electrified road for charging vehicles opens in Sweden | Environment | The Guardian

Gee, its only €1m per kilometer! Not only is it the first electrified road, it will be the last for a long long time. You wouldn't believe how much electrical noise is made passing 100A using brushes on a rail.

Consider reading up on the subject of EV's and how they are changing transportation. Dumping 800 gallons of gas for every 1000 gallons one buys is not friendly to we humans and other animal groups.

If you had a year of college thermodynamics you would know better. Currently you have about a hour of training from Al Gore.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.
  • Thread Starter
#146  
Lame. Tesla had over 200 miles in 2007. The only reason Nissan had only 74 miles is because Nissan is cheap and decided, "this is all you need! 97% never use more than this!" And all Nissan needed was to sell EVs for credits which permitted them to continue selling ICE vehicles in California. That is why your LEAF was so cheap, Nissan subsidizes 2 year leases, then is forced to dump vehicles coming off-lease. A 2 year old Fiat 500e brings about $5000 on the wholesale lots. LEAF is $8k to $10k.



Gee, its only €1m per kilometer! Not only is it the first electrified road, it will be the last for a long long time. You wouldn't believe how much electrical noise is made passing 100A using brushes on a rail.



If you had a year of college thermodynamics you would know better. Currently you have about a hour of training from Al Gore.

Grumpycat thank you for your early financial and motivational support to the EV industry well before it was seen as being a world wide movement. Got to run to make sure I get the Leaf hitting on all cylinders so I can get my wife to work in less than a hour.

Thanks again for your long term efforts in making the EV industry into what it has become in part due to your $100K early commitment to moving the world to buying EV's.
 
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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #147  
Here's one for the do it yourselfers; Finally, An Electric Crate Motor You Can Drop Into Your Old Car
I especially like the comment about finding a way to hook it up to the existing driveline; it would be great in an older 2WD Toyota SR5 or Nissan Frontier.
15 years ago the University of Maine was showing an older S-10 which was solar powered. The panel completely covered the 7 foot bed. They said that they built it just to show what could be done. More recently than that, the History Channel showed an experimental military Humvee which had a motor on all 4 wheels... they could literally spin it on a dime by getting wheels turning in opposite directions.
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #148  
Looks like you are mistaken sir. A nuclear plant can power 740,000 homes. The cost is from 6-9 billion. The cost to install batteries alone in 740,000 homes at $20,000 would be 18.5 billion. At a minimum I would say it is more economical.

So why do those houses need a battery?

Got any idea of the cost of cleanup for radioactive waste in Washington has and will cost?
 
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   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #149  
Previously I missed mentioning the time line of the advent of Electric Cars. Streetcars, trams, trolley’s and railway should also have been mentioned at the same time. Electrical Public Transportation was well developed before the introduction/development of ICE vehicles. Electric as main power is still used by many railways.
[video]https://www.thecanadianencyclopedia.ca/en/article/streetcars[/video]
 
   / Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow. #150  
Lame. Tesla had over 200 miles in 2007. The only reason Nissan had only 74 miles is because Nissan is cheap and decided, "this is all you need! 97% never use more than this!" And all Nissan needed was to sell EVs for credits which permitted them to continue selling ICE vehicles in California. That is why your LEAF was so cheap, Nissan subsidizes 2 year leases, then is forced to dump vehicles coming off-lease. A 2 year old Fiat 500e brings about $5000 on the wholesale lots. LEAF is $8k to $10k.



Gee, its only €1m per kilometer! Not only is it the first electrified road, it will be the last for a long long time. You wouldn't believe how much electrical noise is made passing 100A using brushes on a rail.



If you had a year of college thermodynamics you would know better. Currently you have about a hour of training from Al Gore.

You mean all those electric railways do not work. Perhaps a history course should be on your agenda. The railways and the road are basically the same.

By the way a year of College Thermodynamics would basically mean you could distinguish between Hot & Cold and not much else when the Theoretical Aspects of heat are approached and applied!
 
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