Fixin' to pull the trigger

[jeff9366]

1: My pastures were under watermelon production until 13 years ago, and have been totally (other than the occasional mowing) abandoned for 13 years. There is NOTHING but weeds in my pastures, and if I let them, they would grow 8' tall, with some pretty hefty stalks. I had the pastures mowed and 100% weed killed for every weed that was out there. My plan, after getting guidance, is to disc the field very well in order to be ready to sprig and seed for coastal Bermuda this coming spring. I should NOT have those weeds grow up with the heavy stalks again.

While you have killed existing weeds there are a tremendous number of weed seeds in the ground which will sprout in the Spring. Disc pretty aggressively to kill the perennial weed roots and level, then disc lightly every two weeks to kill annual weeds germinating from seeds. Sow your Bermuda seed fairly late and heavy over bare ground. Hopefully Bermuda will out grow and crowd out your problem weeds. Google your weather and plant four to six weeks before dry season arrives.

Be sure to have you soil tested by your local ag agent before planting. Tell ag agent you will plant Bermuda and soil test will come with exact fertilizer and lime recommendations. Soil tests are less than $10 each.

I do have iron ore rocks under the surface of my pastures (some the size of a cantaloupe), so I might need the medium duty disc harrow.

1. A Disc Harrow with 9" spacing between the pans will have less difficulty harrowing a field with cantaloupe size rocks than a Disc Harrow with 7" or 7-1/2" spacing between the pans.

2. How deep do you want to penetrate with the Disc Harrow pans?

A pan is thin over most of its area, however the center hub is thicker, to hold the axle and withstand torsion stress.

Pan hubs on Disc Harrows for compact tractor are usually 2" to 3" in diameter. The hub limits pan penetration.

So an 18" DH pan in theory could penetrate 18" / 2 = 9" - 2" hub = 7" theoretical penetration.

A 22" DH pan in theory could penetrate 22" / 2 = 11" - 3" hub = 8" theoretical penetration.


In the real world a DH with 18" pans, spaced 9", has about 37 pounds of implement weight bearing on each pan and real world penetration is about 2" per pass in moist soil due to lack of weight.

In the real world a DH with 22" pans, spaced 9", has about 75 pounds of implement weight bearing on each pan and real world penetration can be 6" per pass in moist soil.

MORE: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...disc-harrow-selection-compact.html?highlight=

https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...ing-three-point-hitch-mounted.html?highlight=

QUESTION: Am I comparing Apples vs. Oranges when considering a Kubota vs. LS or TYM? I just want some thoughts on life, durability and resale (if I had to) of the TYM and LS.

The fundamental importance of TRACTOR WEIGHT eludes many tractor shoppers.

The most efficient way to shop for tractors is to first identify potential tractor applications, then, through consulataton, establish bare tractor weight necessary to safely accomplish your applications. Tractor dealers, experienced tractor owners and TractorByNet.com are sources for weight recommendations.

Sufficient tractor weight is more important for most tractor applications than increased tractor horsepower. Bare tractor weight is a tractor specification easily found in sales brochures and web sites, readily comparable across tractor brands and tractor models, new and used.

Within subcompact and compact tractor categories, a significant tractor capability increase requires a bare tractor weight increase of 50%. It takes a 100% increase in bare tractor weight to elicit MY-OH-MY!

Shop your weight range within tractor brands. Budget will eliminate some choices. Collect a dealer brochure for each tractor model in your weight range. I spreadsheet tractor and implement specs, often a revealing exercise. I have a column for cost per pound.



Kubota is the Gold Standard for compact tractors in the USA. Are Kubotas a great value? Opinions differ.

Kubota has 50% of the USA compact tractor market. Deere has 20% of the USA compact tractor market. All other compact tractor brands compete for the remaining 30% of USA compact tractor market.

Korean tractors are value priced. Are the controls as refined as Kubota controls? Are LS and TYM tractors as reliable as Kubota tractors for owners intending to keep the tractor for fifteen years or more? Opinions differ.

If you are an average USA compact tractor residential user, adding sixty hours to the clock per year, I consider the brands equal.

One important factor determining tractor reliability is the experience and prudence of the owner-operator.
Prudence in operation. Prudence in performing maintenance thoroughly and on a timely basis.

 

[rScotty]

Okey Doke. . . So I got out of my deer stand this morn, spread some rye seed around the new house, and then went to my second Kubota Dealer. Made it by 15mins. I didn't know tractor dealers close at Noon on Saturday. Here are some comments about today, and some questions.

1: The dealer was putting me into the Medium Duty Disc Harrow, Box Blade and Rotary Cutter.
SNIP
QUESTION: Do I need the Medium Duty Implements. Of Course Medium Duty Implements are better than light duty, but I don't know that I necessarily need to spend the money on them.

2. QUESTION: When buying a new tractor, what type of Great Service should I expect? The posts in the forums ALWAYS say, go with the dealership who will give you great service. So, I am just curious. The only thing he said that he would do for me was deliver the equipment for free. And that answer was not given with excitement. And it was not offered.

3: I asked about getting R4 rather than R1 Ag tires filled with water/antifreeze. SNIP He then mentioned, maybe he could put some R4s on the tractor out on the lot, and I commented that I assumed that is what he would do rather than transfer one in. It appeared that he felt he would then be stuck with the R1s, and have to find a rig to put them on.

QUESTION: Does this sound normal? Seems to me, buying a tractor that was Spec'd-out at $38,125 (with the Medium Duty Implements), putting the R4s on the tractor shouldn't even be an issue.

4:
QUESTION: Am I looking at Apples vs. Oranges when considering a Kubota vs. LS or TYM? I know this question promotes personal opinions and sometimes breeds arguments, but I don't want it to be that way. I just wanted some thoughts on life, durability and resale (if I had to) of the TYM and LS.

I think that is it for now. I really am ready to pull the trigger, so that is why all the questions. I should be buying one within the next 4 weeks. Gotta get moved in to the house, and then probly first week of December, I will have to make my decision.

Thanks SO much for all who have responded.

Well, I figure you already know that none of those questions have solid answers; just opinions. About all anyone can do offer opinions. Sometimes the opinion is a comment on the question instead of the answer. But that seems to be one of the way that people learn.
In order, then....

1. About medium & light implements. I don't think I've ever bought an implement new, only used.....although I certainly own a lot of them. I kinda like to tinker with simple things, and just how much can go wrong with something like a box blade, harrow, or disc? Why would I ever buy any of those new? For the paint??
They all work by being dragged through the dirt. Once trip through the property and the best of them is now "used". Besides, by buying used implements my money buys more quality. And as you probably already know, the quality of implements varies all over the place. With used tools it is easier to tell the good from the poor ones, and less investment in mistakes.
Once you figure out what implements work for your tractor and your ground THEN you can buy new and get your money's worth.
Oh.... as far as an answer goes. Get medium duty if you can. Keep in mind that you are trying to see what works on your crop on your land without investing a lot of money until you smarten up.

2. Great service from a dealer .... that's another thing to know. I wouldn't hesitate to ask around, for one. And I wouldn't believe any one answer until I'd gotten a bunch or answers.

But one way you are going to know is in how he deals with a sales contract. I remember writing some about that here on TBN, about the things that most people wish they had put into the contract. Most of these things below are questions you can ask beforehand. But let him know you will also want them listed in writing on the sales contract that both of you sign.

If the tractor requires warranty work, who is responsible for transporting it back and forth from the dealership?
Does your state have a "lemon law" and how does it work for tractors?

If the tractor is going to be laid up for warranty work, does he provide a loaner? Who transports the loaner?
Is any warranty "downtime" added to the length of the warranty period? If there is a loan, is it suspended while tractor is in the shop?
BTW, tractors usually have their first going-over and all the lubes+filters changed at either 50 or 100 hrs. What is the cost for that? Transport? Other service intervals?

Does the dealership have a mobile mechanic rig and a good mobile mechanic? Most real dealerships do. Who pays for him to come out during warranty?
You might want to take a look at their mobile rig and their repair shop if you know about such things...
Does he offer an extended warranty or any special program for customers?(some dealers have special rates on things like oil/filter service if the mobile tech is nearby anyway).

3,4,5,... Yeah, tires cost more. Tractor tires last forever, so get the ones you want. I prefer R4s in sandy soil.
Go to Kubota's "build your own tractor" on their website and go through the process there to see how much they cost. Sometimes Kubota has wheel weights listed for a model that cost less than loading the tire with fluid. Personally I would never get a tractor "transferred in" from another dealer if I had tried the one on the lot and liked it. Others might feel differently and probably do....

4. Apples and Oranges.... probably as you say.... Tractors are real competitive, chances are good in that type of market that you get what you pay for. I feel I did.
Nobody can predict durability; most tractors are very durable....even the 2nd and 3rd tier brands. Resale is another story. That is where you can easily recover your initial extra cost. Only you know how important that cost is to you. When I'm looking for a tool to last a lifetime, initial cost is less important than how much I like it.

Good luck. Best thing I would do is just get out and talk to some of the landowners with tractors in your area. In fact, I wouldn't even consider buying before doing that.
rScotty

 

[fried1765]

Okey Doke. . . So I got out of my deer stand this morn, spread some rye seed around the new house, and then went to my second Kubota Dealer. Made it by 15mins. I didn't know tractor dealers close at Noon on Saturday. Here are some comments about today, and some questions.

1: The dealer was putting me into the Medium Duty Disc Harrow, Box Blade and Rotary Cutter. The reason he did that was I was telling him that my pastures were under watermelon production until 13 years ago, and have been totally (other than the occasional mowing) abandoned for 13 years. There is NOTHING but weeds in my pastures, and if I let them, they would grow 8' tall, with some pretty hefty stalks. Right now the pastures are cut, and I had them 100% weed killed for every weed that was out there. My plan, after getting guidance, is to disc the field very well in order to be ready to sprig and seed for coastal Bermuda this coming spring. I should NOT have those weeds grow up with the heavy stalks again, and I have no small trees. He explained that the light duty would be for 1" and the medium duty would be for 2" stalks. I do have iron ore rocks under the surface of my pastures (some the size of a cantaloupe), so I might need the medium duty disc harrow. Box Blade will be for the road and scraping trails through the woods.

QUESTION: Do I need the Medium Duty Implements. Of Course Medium Duty Implements are better than light duty, but I don't know that I necessarily need to spend the money on them.

2: Every post I read for Newbies always say. . . Go with the dealer that will provide you with the best service. So, when I was sitting down with the salesman I asked him. . . "What kind of service will you provide me in the future?" He looked at me funny, and said, "Well we will provide great service. And as far as customer service, once again, Great service." He didn't come out and give me reasons WHY I should buy from his dealership.

QUESTION: When buying a new tractor, what type of Great Service should I expect? The posts in the forums ALWAYS say, go with the dealership who will give you great service. So, I am just curious. The only thing he said that he would do for me was deliver the equipment for free. And that answer was not given with excitement. And it was not offered.

3: I asked about getting R4 rather than R1 Ag tires filled with water/antifreeze. He stated that he didn't have any MX4800s with R4s on his lot, but could look to find where find one to get one transferred in. He looked to see if he could order one from the factory with the R4s, but was unable, as it seems they are about to start making new tractors. I asked him if there would be a transfer fee for that, and he was a bit vague on that, but said, we could figure that out when I ordered depending on where the tractor was. He then mentioned, maybe he could put some R4s on the tractor out on the lot, and I commented that I assumed that is what he would do rather than transfer one in. It appeared that he felt he would then be stuck with the R1s, and have to find a rig to put them on.

QUESTION: Does this sound normal? Seems to me, buying a tractor that was Spec'd-out at $38,125 (with the Medium Duty Implements), putting the R4s on the tractor shouldn't even be an issue.

4: Right now, I Really like the Orange over the Green. And I think I think there are benefits of the two, but I am willing to look at the LS, TYM, and Zetor at my friend's friend's dealership. I plan on having this rig for many years, and at this point with the amount of property I have, and the work I will be doing, I don't believe I will need to upgrade to more HP. One or two of you have already commented on looking at the others, so I feel I should at least look.

QUESTION: Am I looking at Apples vs. Oranges when considering a Kubota vs. LS or TYM? I know this question promotes personal opinions and sometimes breeds arguments, but I don't want it to be that way. I just wanted some thoughts on life, durability and resale (if I had to) of the TYM and LS.

I think that is it for now. I really am ready to pull the trigger, so that is why all the questions. I should be buying one within the next 4 weeks. Gotta get moved in to the house, and then probly first week of December, I will have to make my decision.

Thanks SO much for all who have responded.

It is my opinion only....but....
I honestly do believe that a Kubota will have the best resale value whenever you might choose to sell.
Do I own a Kubota?
Yup!

 

[jezreel]

First off. . . Thanks for the GREAT response rScotty. Those are great questions for me to ask. And thanks for your tidbit of info fried1765.

My words below are just to give y'all a glimpse of my day, and my thoughts. It is tough being a first time tractor buyer. It is even tougher thinking about buying a tractor and implements for over $30,000. WOW! ! ! I really appreciate all the comments, and I know they are all opinions based on many years of experience. So, don't think I'm trying to stir things up.

Well. . . Here is what happened today. I was going to go to the "Local" TYM / LS / Zetor dealer. Had a FANTASTIC experience. The guy spent over an hour and a half with me. Showing me everything, explaining everything, letting me take test drives and he was just plain awesome. I really liked the TYM T494. It was A Lot of Tractor, with some great features.

TYM T494 vs. Kubota MX4800 Tractor and Loader. . . T494 was $5,000 less than the MX4800. I really liked the tractor.

The only thing about this tractor is there was NO 60month 0% financing. I have the money to pay cash for the tractor, but money in the bank invested the way I have it is better than paying 5.5% on the TYM. Interest on the TYM would be $3,600 over 60months. In the end, the Kubota MX4800 tractor/loader would be $29,100, and the TYM T494 (with interest) would be $28,100 So, would the outstanding $1,000 between the two be worth buying the Kubota. I think so. I really liked this guy and the time he spent with me.

My thoughts are that I would buy the MX4800 at 0% interest for 60months, and buy the implements from the TYM guy for cash. He had some great implements for less than the Kubota Dealer.

But then again. . . I could just buy an old used Ford 4000, bush hog and disc harrow for less than $10,000. I don't know. It is a serious thing spending over $30,000.

So that is what I've got today.

 

[Diggin It]

The financing debate can get pretty testy around here, but the consensus is that '0' down isn't really in the consumer's favor. My rate is variable, has changed a few times, and is currently lower than when I signed the papers. I take monthly withdrawls out of an investment account to cover the payment. Aside from a few market swings (when a certain somebody runs his mouth), that account has increased over the year more than I have taken out.

 

[jpm]

One more thing to add to your thoughts a 4n1 bucket will help with trees ,brush,ECT . Good luck with whatever you choose.

 

[jeff9366]

I will be a First Time tractor owner.

My thoughts are that I would buy the MX4800 at 0% interest for 60months, and buy the implements from the TYM guy for cash. He had some great implements for less than the Kubota Dealer.

I question your capability to distinguish great implements from lesser implements.

You do not know what you do not know.

 

[rScotty]

The financing debate can get pretty testy around here, but the consensus is that '0' down isn't really in the consumer's favor. My rate is variable, has changed a few times, and is currently lower than when I signed the papers. I take monthly withdrawls out of an investment account to cover the payment. Aside from a few market swings (when a certain somebody runs his mouth), that account has increased over the year more than I have taken out.

Congratulations.

However, the financing that Kubota periodically offers is not only "0 down", it is also 0 % interest. For us it worked like this: we bargained for the best deal that we could get, and then simply divided that number by 60 to figure the payments. That's hard to beat, and particularly so in an "up" investment climate like right now. BTW, I'm old enough to have experienced that dividend investments don't always go up. That's when you will be really glad to have invested dividends into something concrete like a tractor instead of more of whatever paper instrument it is invested in.

I didn't believe Kubota's claim of 5 years at no down & no interest at first. After all, we had bargained into a pretty good deal to start (tractor was a loaded demo with 20 hrs), and I figured to sweeten it on my side by offering cash. But to my amazement, cash didn't interest the dealer at all. He pointed out that Kubota Corporate would send him a check for the full amount within a day of his sending them the signed contract.... so either way was the same as cash to him.

rScotty

 

[rScotty]

This is not meant to flame you. I question your capability to distinguish great implements from lesser implements. I question your ability to satisfactorily select implements appropriate for your tasks, your eleven working acres and your eventual tractor without considerable input from experienced tractor owners.

You do not know what you do not know.

Frankly, I don't always agree with jeff, and that's being charitable. But sometimes even a daft squirrel will find an acorn, and he is right on about the implements. And even more so about not knowing what you don't know.

He might even agree with me on the value of used or even rented implements.

I'd say to put your money into the right tractor with a nice loader and put your extra $$ into remote hydraulic outlets on the front and rear of that tractor. That way you can add anything you want later. Then add a $300 used box blade for the back, and you are done. Go out and get to work.

Talk to your neighbors, cruise the used implement dealers (there are lots, but they don't advertise much). Go to farm sales. Look on the bulletin board at the breakfast coffee shop where farmers hang.

rScotty

From Car Talk:
"Do two people, who don't know what they're talking about, know more, or less, than one person, who doesn't know what they're talking about?"

 

[jeff9366]

He might even agree with me on the value of used implements.

Yes.

There should be plenty of farm auctions in east Texas.

Determine optimum implement parameters first, then shop.