Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[Grumpycat]

What would gasoline cost you to drive the same number of miles in a month?

I answered that in https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...c-vehicles-today-post5612743.html#post5612743

At $0.18/kWh my 380 Wh/mile Model S costs $0.0684/mile. Divide that into your cost of gasoline to get the dollar equivalent MPG. At $4/gallon it is 58.5 MPG.

$-per-gallon / ( $-per-kWh times 0.380 kWh/mile ) = dollar equivalent MPG

Replace 0.380 with 0.260 for the newer more efficient Model 3.

Math Is Hard

 

[Grumpycat]

but you have to recharge a Tesla every day. I fill my truck once a week or less

No you do not "have to recharge a Tesla every day."

No different than a truck, you only replenish what you use.

It is best to plug in every night so that every morning the vehicle is ready for whatever comes its way.

 

[grsthegreat]

I answered that in https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...c-vehicles-today-post5612743.html#post5612743

At $0.18/kWh my 380 Wh/mile Model S costs $0.0684/mile. Divide that into your cost of gasoline to get the dollar equivalent MPG. At $4/gallon it is 58.5 MPG.

$-per-gallon / ( $-per-kWh times 0.380 kWh/mile ) = dollar equivalent MPG

Replace 0.380 with 0.260 for the newer more efficient Model 3.

Math Is Hard

well my Dodge diesel Ram gets between 24 to 27 mpg . Our diesel is 2.89 right now. I need to get my calculator. But first I need to calculate cost of vehicle into the factor. I paid 25,000 for rig in 1994. Has 370,000 miles and still going strong. What does a Tesla cost?. Also I’m not sure what cost is involved when batteries need replacing. Too many variables for a stomach filled with xmas food

 

[Gale Hawkins]

1 Industries Elon Musk and Tesla Will Destroy - YouTube

This lawyer states there are industries that is going to be helped and others that will be hurt by the technology that Tesla is introducing to the world.

 

[Grumpycat]

well my Dodge diesel Ram gets between 24 to 27 mpg . Our diesel is 2.89 right now. I need to get my calculator. But first I need to calculate cost of vehicle into the factor. I paid 25,000 for rig in 1994. Has 370,000 miles and still going strong. What does a Tesla cost?. Also I’m not sure what cost is involved when batteries need replacing. Too many variables for a stomach filled with xmas food

Tesla batteries are currently estimated to serve 300,000 to 500,000 miles. As with engines and transmissions some have failed earlier.

 

[buickanddeere]

Yes but new elements are not what has driven battery (or motor) advances.

Even today's lead-acid batteries are better than those of 10-20 years ago.

Check again. The watt hours per pound of lead acid battery has not changed in over a century.
Would you quit spinning the fantasy that 妬f the goal is noble enough and enough research is done , the laws of physics can be broken ?

 

[buickanddeere]

I expect you know your post is misleading mixing religion and science.

As of today not every element on the periodic table is used to make lithium ion EV batteries so there is room for new battery materials in the future.

Alas I was concerned that you failed to understand and you have proven it in Spades . Every possible anode, cathode and electrolyte combination has been tried. Best typical capacity is 240watts per Kg, 280watts if you don稚 mind risking thermal runaway .With an absolute theoretical max of 400watt hours per Kg .
That痴 it, done nada .

 

[radios1]

No you do not "have to recharge a Tesla every day."

No different than a truck, you only replenish what you use.

It is best to plug in every night so that every morning the vehicle is ready for whatever comes its way.

if you use up the full capacity of the battery everyday, which is not hard, then you have to recharge it overnight everyday..

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[buickanddeere]

Because 5x is all the effort we wish to expend.

3X was a stretch with a high end expensive limited production airframe .
About time you dreamers accepted there are physical and chemical boundaries.

 

[buickanddeere]

1 Industries Elon Musk and Tesla Will Destroy - YouTube

This lawyer states there are industries that is going to be helped and others that will be hurt by the technology that Tesla is introducing to the world.

Just ruined any credibility you had by being a lawyer. Truth is rather flexible in that field .

 

[airbiscuit]

 

[buickanddeere]

We see this one rolled out by those filled with blind belief and little practical knowledge of the practical world . Why don’t we have people running the mile in less than minutes? Why don’t we have flying cars? Why don’t all cars travel on the highway at 200mph? Why can we not obtain 500mpg with a typical family sedan ? Why don’t we have handheld lasers/phasers like on Star Trek ? Why don’t aircraft carriers cruise at 100knots ? Why can’t all sailboats in the marina travel at 40knots in any direction without having to tack?.

 

[airbiscuit]

Thanks to the relentless march of technology, we live far better than did kings of the past, travel farther and faster than the horse and buggy, fly through the skies rather than just gaze upon them. I differ with those who think advances in technology are over.

3

 

[Grumpycat]

Check again. The watt hours per pound of lead acid battery has not changed in over a century.
Would you quit spinning the fantasy that 妬f the goal is noble enough and enough research is done , the laws of physics can be broken ?

I said nothing about capacity, only "better". Better longevity. Better alloys of lead. Better plate technology. As proof the manufacturers know how to make better batteries is the multitude of "grades" available. They deliberately make cheap batteries because that is what marketing asks for so as to be able to sell others at premium prices.

Advances over decades? How about AGM batteries?

 

[Grumpycat]

Alas I was concerned that you failed to understand and you have proven it in Spades . Every possible anode, cathode and electrolyte combination has been tried. Best typical capacity is 240watts per Kg, 280watts if you don稚 mind risking thermal runaway .With an absolute theoretical max of 400watt hours per Kg .
That痴 it, done nada .

Right, "every possible anode, cathode and electrolyte combination has been tried." Uh huh. Clearly we should close the patent office because everything has already been invented already: Tracing the Quote: Everything that can be Invented has been Invented | Patently-O

In a dumb simple world there would be no need to search for anything beyond pure iron. All other elements are known. Nothing will ever be better. But then some upstart mixes carbon with iron and creates steel. Others add nickel and create stainless steel. Good thing they didn't listen to buickanddeere.

 

[Grumpycat]

if you use up the full capacity of the battery everyday, which is not hard, then you have to recharge it overnight everyday..

Your deliberate trolling is showing.

250 miles is easy on one charge with a Tesla Model 3 Long Range using a 75 kWh battery. The EPA conservatively-rated consumption is 0.260 kWh/mile (drawn from the grid, includes all conversion and charging losses). At $2.532 national average cost per gallon of gasoline and $0.1041/kWh for electricity a Tesla Model 3 costs the same to drive as a car getting 93 MPG.

Doesn't matter how far one drives or how much of the tank or battery is used, the cost is the same as getting 93 MPG.

(2.532 $/gallon) / (0.260 kWh/mile * 0.1041 $/kwh) = 93.5 miles/gallon

Gasoline and Diesel Fuel Update - Energy Information Administration
EIA - Electricity Data

 

[Grumpycat]

3X was a stretch with a high end expensive limited production airframe .
About time you dreamers accepted there are physical and chemical boundaries.

Didn't say that either, you did. You say we can't, I say we can and have but its too much effort.

There is a reason we drive 70 MPH not 100 MPH. Is not because we can't but because the cost and effort is too much. Too much fuel. Too much effort to build safe roads. Too much effort to train safe drivers.

Its not that we can't fly 5X the speed of sound, we have, its just that its too much effort but for limited applications such as missiles.

The land speed record is 8.5 mach. I wasn't there then but have since. Rocket sled - Wikipedia

 

[grsthegreat]

and this is a quesyion for those that do know. how long does it take to recharge a tesla car at their recharging stations around the country...not the home base unit? Just wondering as i have no idea. If your traveling past the 200 of so mile range, how long does it take to recharge for another 200 mile stretch?

 

[buickanddeere]

I said nothing about capacity, only "better". Better longevity. Better alloys of lead. Better plate technology. As proof the manufacturers know how to make better batteries is the multitude of "grades" available. They deliberately make cheap batteries because that is what marketing asks for so as to be able to sell others at premium prices.

Advances over decades? How about AGM batteries?

AGM does not have any more capacity per pound of battery . Still just lead and sulphuric acid .