logging winch danger

[Hoobie]

I know the topic of logging winch danger and safety has been extensively discussed in former threads. But this may be a new one.
I am 70 and have worked around tractors and the woodlot since I was about 10. I know things can happen fast and to always be thinking safety. I use a 52 hp Kubota with a Wallenstein fx 85 winch. Recently I had a mishap which really startled me. I twitched several tree length hardwood logs to the landing when one came flying up hitting the protective screen behind me and falling sideways.
Here is what happened. I always twitch with the pto off. When I get to the landing I switch on the pto, give the pull cord a jerk while still on the tractor to unlock the winch drum and drop the load, then pull ahead a few feet, dismount the tractor and disconnect the chokers chains. This time when I switched on the pto the winch came to life pulling one tree against the winch blade jill poking the butt and summersaulting the tree forward smashing into the cage behind me then falling to the side. This took a second or two and happened before I instinctively hit the tractor clutch. Very startling and confusing those two seconds! I shut down to assess what happened. Without the protective screen I would surely have been clobbered bad.
I always try to tie up the winch clutch pull cord safely out of the way. I guess this time I had not. Somehow the cord had become wrapped around the tractor axle and wound tight and engaged the winch clutch. So the moment I switched on the pto the winch came to life by itself. Looked like I had picked up some brush on the way to the landing tangling the dragging cord and somehow had pushed it forward probably grabbing the tire chain and wrapping the axle. But didn't break the cord so must have just happened as I was about to stop. This winch has a ball hitch mounted on it and I think this is what the tree caught on to jilpoke it so fast.
Needless to say I really make sure the cord is secure now. And I assess the winch before turning on the pto.
Anything can happen and given enough time it will.

 

[CADplans]

Hoobie,, glad you are not hurt,,


just to clarify,, maybe you could rewrite the info without using words us non-loggers could understand, to make the safety easier to understand,,

Twitching?
Jill poking? (Hmmmmmmm,, I could guess on that one,,, LOL!!)

I surely would shorten that clutch pull cord,, and maybe even make it a break away,,,

 

[Jstpssng]

I had something similar happen once with my old Fransgard after working in snow. The next day the winch clutch had frozen, so just as you experienced the load came in unexpectedly. I always release the clutch slowly though, so had it back in before anything untoward happened.

 

[Gordon Gould]

That's a good warning Hoobie. Glad you are OK - sounds like a close one. You are right there is no end to the things that can happen working in the woods.

I had a similar experience but different. The rope was a little stiff from some freezing rain the day before but not to stiff. I winched in a small hitch in the woods. Every thing seemed fine. When I got to the landing, like you, I lowered the winch, turned on the pto, and gave the rope a jerk. The load dropped like I expected it to. Since it was a small hitch I didn't pull forward, just bent over and unhooked the hitch right there. When the chokers were free the cable and chokers suddenly winched in and I got chain whipped across the cheek and my glasses flew off broken. What had happened was the clutch didn't quite release all the way because of the frozen rope so as I unhooked the hitch it was slipping. When the weight of the logs were off there was enough clutch pressure to pull in the empty cable which whipped upwards when the slidders hit the top pulley. I put a knot in my control rope right at the pulley so now I can see at a glance if the rope is all the way back to the release clutch position. I check it now before I turn on the pto and after I release the clutch rope to make sure the clutch is fully disengaged.



gg

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I surely would shorten that clutch pull cord,, and maybe even make it a break away,,,

I sure don't want the cord on my winch shortened!! When used off the tractor, I want to be a ways to the side, when winching!

How about just being more careful in the first place, instead of "fixing" something that isn't broken!!!

SR

 

[John_Mc]

Hoobie,, glad you are not hurt,,


just to clarify,, maybe you could rewrite the info without using words us non-loggers could understand, to make the safety easier to understand,,

Twitching?
Jill poking? (Hmmmmmmm,, I could guess on that one,,, LOL!!)

I surely would shorten that clutch pull cord,, and maybe even make it a break away,,,

Apparently, terminology varies from region to region. Around here, a twitching means using the winch to pull logs to the tractor (so it would not be possible to "twitch with the PTO turned off" as Hoobie mentions). Using as a noun, a "twitch" of wood is whatever wood you have attached to your winch line for one pull into the tractor. Depending on your tractor's capabilities, you may pull in more than one twitch to make up a a full load for your tractor. Once you have as much as you can drag out, you turn off the winch and "skid" the logs out to the landing or wherever you need them.

i have never heard the term Jill poke

 

[Hoobie]

Hoobie,, glad you are not hurt,,


just to clarify,, maybe you could rewrite the info without using words us non-loggers could understand, to make the safety easier to understand,,

Twitching?
Jill poking? (Hmmmmmmm,, I could guess on that one,,, LOL!!)

I surely would shorten that clutch pull cord,, and maybe even make it a break away,,,

I never thought but these may be local expressions.
Twitch means to pull in or drag logs with a horse, tractor or skidder.
Jill poke is when an object strikes a snag and jerks sideways or upends.
Upends means upends:laughing:
I leave the cord long so I can stand safely to the side when operating winch. Lot of stuff going on there

 

[Hoobie]

That's a good warning Hoobie. Glad you are OK - sounds like a close one. You are right there is no end to the things that can happen working in the woods.

I had a similar experience but different. The rope was a little stiff from some freezing rain the day before but not to stiff. I winched in a small hitch in the woods. Every thing seemed fine. When I got to the landing, like you, I lowered the winch, turned on the pto, and gave the rope a jerk. The load dropped like I expected it to. Since it was a small hitch I didn't pull forward, just bent over and unhooked the hitch right there. When the chokers were free the cable and chokers suddenly winched in and I got chain whipped across the cheek and my glasses flew off broken. What had happened was the clutch didn't quite release all the way because of the frozen rope so as I unhooked the hitch it was slipping. When the weight of the logs were off there was enough clutch pressure to pull in the empty cable which whipped upwards when the slidders hit the top pulley. I put a knot in my control rope right at the pulley so now I can see at a glance if the rope is all the way back to the release clutch position. I check it now before I turn on the pto and after I release the clutch rope to make sure the clutch is fully disengaged.

View attachment 634214

gg

you know Gordon that is interesting.This is my second winch which I bought a year ago from the dealer. It was second hand....used one year and traded in. When I first used it there was a knot in the control cord. Real tight and still is there. Never thought much about it. But now that I checked it is right there by the little pulley when retracted. The former owner must have done the same as you.

Hoobie

 

[Hoobie]

I sure don't want the cord on my winch shortened!! When used off the tractor, I want to be a ways to the side, when winching!

How about just being more careful in the first place, instead of "fixing" something that isn't broken!!!

SR

I agree. Stay off to the side

Hoobie

 

[oosik]

Hoobie - glad you are safe. I've never had nor used a logging winch. BUT - dragging a log, I've had it hit a rock and begin to lift. Fortunately, I saw/felt what was happening. Hit the clutch on the tractor and the log fell sideways. That was the very last time I ever drug a log. I got my grapple and that is how I handle logs now. I cut logs to specific lengths to not overload the grapple/FEL system.

But you are right. "Things" happen so very fast. Sometimes learning by experience can be quite dangerous.

 

[MapleLeafFarmer]

I never thought but these may be local expressions.
Twitch means to pull in or drag logs with a horse, tractor or skidder.
Jill poke is when an object strikes a snag and jerks sideways or upends.
Upends means upends:laughing:
I leave the cord long so I can stand safely to the side when operating winch. Lot of stuff going on there

great warning and glad no damage / injury done.
In Manitoba Jill Poke is same for use.
Instead of twitch we use the term skid or skidding.
I am retired and rec. log solo and stories like reminds me just how dangerous winch lines and trees under tension can be.

 

[goeduck]

I am retired and rec. log solo and stories like reminds me just how dangerous winch lines and trees under tension can be.

Yes, particularly since Hoobie has 60 years of experience working wood under his belt.

 

[CobyRupert]

I never thought but these may be local expressions.
Twitch means to pull in or drag logs with a horse, tractor or skidder.
Jill poke is when an object strikes a snag and jerks sideways or upends.
Upends means upends:laughing:
I leave the cord long so I can stand safely to the side when operating winch. Lot of stuff going on there

So did the tree standup, with it’s butt on the blade, or hitch?
Would choker being closer to end reduce risk?
When disconnecting, I always set winch in ground, which often reduces some tension in cable, then with PTO still off, reach up under guard and manually pull brake lever.
Only if there’s too much tension to not pull manually do I turn PTO on and use it to get slack so brake drops off.

I though my way was sketchy, but after reading these stories, and not having a PTO involved, I like it. PTO’s might be one of the biggest tractor killers along with rollovers.

Keep cord long enough to stand away. When winching, I use to watch log to see if it was snagging on stumps, roots, etc...once on snow & ice I relearned Newton’s 3rd Law, that you’re also pulling the tractor’s backwards too, so don’t stand behind the tire. Now I mostly look at the cable going into the winch, that tells me most of the information I need to know about what is moving or not moving.

Like others say, just when up you think you’ve learned all the dangers, Mother Nature has so many more that can kill you that you haven’t even thought of.

 

[CobyRupert]

OP’s story also reminds me why it’s a good ideal to have a cable longer than the tree is tall when a tree gets hung up in another and you pull on the butt end. Most times butt end will slide away and tree top gets pulled out of branches, but if butt end hangs up and becomes the hinge point and now the top of the tree is mouse-trapping over....watch out! That mistake has gotten a few.

 

[3Ts]

Jill pokes and Gin Poles were used by the western railroads to unload redwood logs from rail cars into a log dump, usually the sawmill ponds. It was pole the that pushed the logs off the car as the car went by.

 

[MossRoad]

Jill pokes and Gin Poles were used by the western railroads to unload redwood logs from rail cars into a log dump, usually the sawmill ponds. It was pole the that pushed the logs off the car as the car went by.

Here's some historic pictures of jill pokes and gin poles

Flickr

 

[Hoobie]

So did the tree standup, with it’s butt on the blade, or hitch?
Would choker being closer to end reduce risk?
When disconnecting, I always set winch in ground, which often reduces some tension in cable, then with PTO still off, reach up under guard and manually pull brake lever.
Only if there’s too much tension to not pull manually do I turn PTO on and use it to get slack so brake drops off.

I though my way was sketchy, but after reading these stories, and not having a PTO involved, I like it. PTO’s might be one of the biggest tractor killers along with rollovers.

Keep cord long enough to stand away. When winching, I use to watch log to see if it was snagging on stumps, roots, etc...once on snow & ice I relearned Newton’s 3rd Law, that you’re also pulling the tractor’s backwards too, so don’t stand behind the tire. Now I mostly look at the cable going into the winch, that tells me most of the information I need to know about what is moving or not moving.

Like others say, just when up you think you’ve learned all the dangers, Mother Nature has so many more that can kill you that you haven’t even thought of.

Yes stood up when butt hit the blade and snagged under the ball hitch receiver built on the Wallenstein winch. Hitch closer to butt is better but those winches have tremendous power.

 

[jjp8182]

Anything can happen and given enough time it will.

So very true.

After seeing the maintenance and mishap rates for entire fleets of equipment (and how each event occurred) it has taught me that little bit of wisdom. In fact it's also lead me to the conclusion that: given some of the consequences even a very low probability (e.g. a true 1 in a million, "not possible") event starts to seem risky when it could happen to you.

When my time is up it's up, but I'd rather avoid becoming a statistic before then....