Starting a Stove Fire

   / Starting a Stove Fire
  • Thread Starter
#181  
Please elaborate on the emissions? I thought there was no difference, only in scale of time.

It's just nice to have a warm roaring fire over the weekend from your days work. Very close, cause and effect relationship.
 
   / Starting a Stove Fire #183  
Well a local fast food buys eqqs by the case and the 12 x 12 egg trays make for a great fire starter.
One egg tray, 6-7 split dry kindling (cedar or pine) and one match and I have a good fire started.
Add 3 (always 3) split hardwood 'logs' and sit back with favorite beverage.
About 1 hr later add more 'logs' and refill my beverage.
 
   / Starting a Stove Fire
  • Thread Starter
#184  
It's dark now, nasty cold and windy out and I have a great glowing pile of embers in the little stove. As my Dad would say, "I wouldn't want to be sleeping in a tent tonight".
 
   / Starting a Stove Fire #185  
I do not burn anything that has not been under cover after being split for 2 years. I do find that if I let it go 3 or 4 years it burns too fast for my liking. I prefer wood in the 17 to 19 % moisture range. Below 14 % burns very well, but catches me by surprise and the fire burns out before I get to reloading. Nothing at all wrong with it, just burns faster.
 
   / Starting a Stove Fire #186  
Please elaborate on the emissions? I thought there was no difference, only in scale of time.

It's just nice to have a warm roaring fire over the weekend from your days work. Very close, cause and effect relationship.

Sorry for sounding so scolding, btw.

But the emissions output is very different. The total CARBON emissions will be the same. But the other nasty stuff: VOCs, particulates, hydrocarbons, etc are way worse with a wet, cold burning fire. Which, btw, might also be contributing to the smokey outdoor conditions you mentioned. A cold, smoky chimney output is more likely to fall towards the ground. A hot burning fire of properly dried wood turns clear coming out the chimney, with very little visible smoke, and rises better into the atmosphere.
 
   / Starting a Stove Fire #188  
But the emissions output is very different. The total CARBON emissions will be the same. But the other nasty stuff: VOCs, particulates, hydrocarbons, etc are way worse with a wet, cold burning fire. Which, btw, might also be contributing to the smokey outdoor conditions you mentioned. A cold, smoky chimney output is more likely to fall towards the ground. A hot burning fire of properly dried wood turns clear coming out the chimney, with very little visible smoke, and rises better into the atmosphere.

Precisely. Burn the stove hot so there's no smoke, put only enough wood in it to heat the stove up thoroughly, then let the fire coast down to embers until the stove temp drops and it's not putting out the heat you need. Then repeat. That'll save you a lot of wood, as most of the heat ends up going up the chimney with a wood stove.
 
   / Starting a Stove Fire #189  
Precisely. Burn the stove hot so there's no smoke, put only enough wood in it to heat the stove up thoroughly, then let the fire coast down to embers until the stove temp drops and it's not putting out the heat you need. Then repeat. That'll save you a lot of wood, as most of the heat ends up going up the chimney with a wood stove.

Hmmm....interesting....we got any thermodynamic / mechanical experts here?
Does it matter if stove is steel vs soapstone, etc...?
Obviously if your generating more energy than can be transferred, extra goes up chimney.
How energy gets transferred gets complicated. Draft, burn rates, material's thermal conductance, relative temperatures, how fast does room lose heat, time, etc.. are factors. My head hurts thinking about it.

Related to this, I think the hotter the fire/smoke is, the farther away its temperature is from the condensing point of creosote when it goes up a cool chimney...and the less cool the chimney will be trying to get it to condense. (Doesn't the smoke itself have less creosote in it if the fire burns hotter? That is, doesn't the creosote tar get burnt (converted to something else) with a hot fire?)

I've seen a "wood gasification" boiler that burned the gases so hot and so much heat was the extracted that the exhaust pipe was barely above room temperature and the inside of the exhaust pipe was clean as a whistle....so I'm guessing creosote DOES get burned if the fire is hot enough.
 
   / Starting a Stove Fire #190  
My stove is steel, and even a small burn will get it pretty hot. I regularly see 700F on the little dial type thermometer I stuck to the lower top step on the stove, and I think that's the hottest Quadrafire recommends. Not much point in trying to get it any hotter than that, but I suppose you could put more wood in to keep it at that temperature longer if you needed the heat due to thermal losses in the home. This house is pretty well insulated and tight, so one burn in either the morning or the evening is enough to keep it in the 68F - 77F range for 24 hours when the temps outside are in the 40s. If it gets colder than that, I'll burn every 12 hours.

Anyway, stoves with large thermal mass, like those made with soapstone, or the ones with large masonry surrounds, have huge thermal masses that will hold lots of heat. Some even have labyrinth like passages to increase the heat transfer into the masonry. So they take a long time to heat up, and a long time to cool off. There's probably thermal modelling software out there somewhere on the net that could give insights on just the right temperature profile in the stove that would be most most efficient way to heat the stove and its surroundings, but like you, the whole thing kinda makes my head spin.

Creosote wise, the flue here is 6" triple wall stainless steel, about 17' high, and it goes straight up from the stove. I clean it after every heating season, and I've never seen any creosote or ash in the pipe, and none drops into the stove when I'm brushing. Year before last there was a small buildup of creosote at the very top end of the pipe that was so small I didn't bother to try to remove it. When I did the clean out last fall, it was gone, probably because I made a point of burning a little hotter in the stove. So I'd agree with you, that the hotter the stove gas, the cleaner the smoke, and the less likely there's creosote in it. And that would also heat up the flue pipe and prevent condensation of any creosote that might be there as well.:2cents:
 

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