Tractor Sizing Compact TLB for cutting trails into a sloped hillside?

[ericm979]

How wide do you want to make these trails/roads? Are they for ATVs or trucks or something else?

Keep in mind with a tractor and BH (or a TLB) the outside stabilizer needs to be on ground that's solid enough to take some weigh. If you're making the road by pulling from the uphill and piling it on the downhill, the downhill/outside will be loose and unstable until it's been packed down. So you'll need to make the road wider than the outside width of the stabilizer pads. A tracked excavator won't have that problem, and it's probably narrower as well.

Another consideration is erosion. You want to make the roads so they won't cause erosion problems, both so they don't wash out and also so you're not damaging your land, clogging streams, etc. Someone with a lot of experience building roads in your area (and thus familiar with your soils) should be able to design roads that minimize erosion.

 

[metalbender]

Rent a dozer with the operator. Be clear on what you want, get a couple estimates. Experienced operator will do the job quickly and correctly. Maintain with your tractor later.

 

[dfkrug]

This is in northern California, in the foothills.

So, in the Sierras then?

I have over a mile of trails now on my 19 acres, some built with my TLB, some by hand, and some with my newly-acquired mini-X. My wider trails are done with the Kioti, and they are about 6-feet wide at their narrowest, and 25% slope at their steepest. My "foot" trails are narrower, and only 4-ft wide at their narrowest, and as much as 33% slope. I started the foot trails over a dozen years ago, with pick and shovel. Progress was slow, of course, and got even slower as I got older and more decrepit.

So, I got the mini in 2018, and now have a year of productivity. Wow. I shoulda gotten it years ago. Now my foot trails can safely be traversed with my 4x4 ATV, which is 42" wide. When cutting a new trail, I can only go up the steeper slopes even with my tracked machine if the soil conditions are just right. Switch-backs take a lot of extra work to get right.

Even my wider tractor trails at their steepest can not be navigated with my tractor if the surface dries out too much. I have crappy R4 tires, and they are a huge compromise to traction.

If you don't want road-width trails, then a dozer or larger excavator is not gonna work. You CAN build certain types of trails with a TLB, but you must get AG tires, IMO. Most of those newer sub-compacts are sold with R4s, which is not good.

Some folks disdain my tiny Chinese mini-X, but it was less than $8500 new, and is only 3-ft wide. When I cut a new trail, I shoot for 36" of undisturbed cut ground, with the fill on the side adding to a total width of about 4-5 feet. I do not drive on the fill part (with ATV or mini) until it has consolidated for one season. Ideally, I would use a plate-compactor for the fill, but they are too heavy to haul up the mountainside.

 

[jeff9366]

Some folks disdain my tiny Chinese mini-X, but it was less than $8500 new, and is only 3-ft wide. When I cut a new trail, I shoot for 36" of undisturbed cut ground, with the fill on the side adding to a total width of about 4-5 feet. I do not drive on the fill part (with ATV or mini) until it has consolidated for one season.

dfkrug: "Importing and modifying a new mini excavator from China"

LINK: https://www.tractorbynet.com/forums...-modifying-new-mini-excavator.html?highlight=

Interesting.

 

[dragoneggs]

Always a tough call. Of course the best would be two machines, a Mini Ex and and a CUT would be my desire. Maybe buy a used Mini Ex and sell it after you have put the majority of road work behind you. Then you can maintain, add some improvements, and do other projects with your CUT. You will want some teeth on your FEL bucket for any kind of digging. I highly recommend a Piranha Tooth Bar!

I have cut hundreds of feet of trail road into a steep/challenging side hill similar to yours with my BX25D using both the back hoe and the the FEL bucket with PTB. But it is very slow going and can be a puckering experience at times. I also highly recommend wheel spacers to widen stance to increase stability.

 

[dfkrug]

While I generally favor a larger tractor, I think your selections could work if you go slow and safe.

That's a good video, cuz it shows you can really do a lot of work, even with a very small machine.

You can see how light it is when the operator is dumping a bkt of dirt on the top of that mini-mountain. When the bkt reaches the end of its travel, the whole tractor kinda jerks in response. Powerful hydraulics on a very light machine is a really different experience vs. running 2-3 ton tractors. My 2000# mini jerks me around just like that.

 

[mikester]

The bummer about an excavator or dozer is that it would be a single purpose machine for me, and wouldn't help with things like maintaining my driveway, moving gravel around, making burn piles, etc... In that regard, a CTL would be much more appealing. But I'm just not sure if a CTL could really dig into the hillside, having never used one here.

A machine designed to do everything does nothing particularly well. Do you drive screws with a hammer?

Any track machine has a major week point...its track. Quick to wear, expensive to fix. When working on slopes you have no where to turn around. So that means LOTS of driving around, 50% of the time with nothing in the bucket. Yes you can turn in one spot, but that grinds up the track super quick. Any TLB means you will be digging with the backhoe, drive out, drive back, scoop/level and repeat. A SCUT TLB means you will be doing that every 4-6 feet.

If you want to save money hire an experienced operator with machine. Then buy a SCUT to cut your grass, clean up the garden, ...if you need a very expensive powered hand shovel buy a backhoe attachment for the SCUT.

 

[txdon]

Rent a dozer with the operator. Be clear on what you want, get a couple estimates. Experienced operator will do the job quickly and correctly. Maintain with your tractor later.

This is what I would do also. The operator should also know how to cut it so it will not wash out.

I had a Kubota 5030 with a BH90 backhoe and did cut flat trails on the side of my dam, it did take a long time. the getting on and off is tiresome. I was digging in sand and clay, no trees or rocks.

 

[Gary Fowler]

Hire an experienced dozer operator with a D6 sized dozer with 6 way blade. The blade width will be plenty wide for a road for your tractor.
He can likely build your trail/road in a day or 2 at the most. This size dozer around here rents for $85 per hour including operator. They can do an amazing amount of work in an hour when just cutting into a hillside and dropping the dirt to the low side. Then a CUT with box blade can keep it smoothed out later.

I could likely dig that out with my B26 TLB but it would take a long time and digging out rocks is hard on the backhoe. Even with owning my own TLB, I would hire a dozer to do similar work.

 

[Diggin It]

I seem to remember at one time that CA was helping people with fire breaks and fire access roads. Not sure if they still do, but might be worth checking into.

 

[finn1]

A machine designed to do everything does nothing particularly well. Do you drive screws with a hammer?

Any track machine has a major week point...its track. Quick to wear, expensive to fix. When working on slopes you have no where to turn around. So that means LOTS of driving around, 50% of the time with nothing in the bucket. Yes you can turn in one spot, but that grinds up the track super quick. Any TLB means you will be digging with the backhoe, drive out, drive back, scoop/level and repeat. A SCUT TLB means you will be doing that every 4-6 feet.

If you want to save money hire an experienced operator with machine. Then buy a SCUT to cut your grass, clean up the garden, ...if you need a very expensive powered hand shovel buy a backhoe attachment for the SCUT.

Track wear hasn稚 impeded sales of either mini excavators or CTLs. Manufacturers can barely give away rubber tired skid steers in many places. Everyone wants a CTL.

Yes , tracks are maintenance items that should be budgeted for, but 1400 hours isn稚 unheard of.

It would take years to put that many hours on a personal use machine. Furthermore, there wouldn稚 be much turning around with a mini. The house rotates, and backfilling is easy. A lot of the leveling is done with the bucket, with trimming done with the blade.

It痴 hard to describe the productivity of a mini to someone who痴 dead set on a backhoe attachment, though. Amazing machines.

 

[dfkrug]

A machine designed to do everything does nothing particularly well. Do you drive screws with a hammer?

A better comparison might be: do you drive screws with a hand screwdriver, now that you have a Li-ion impact screwgun?

Any CUT is going to be a compromise, even your M59TLB. A Swiss Army Knife of tools, compact utility tractors are the tool to buy when you want only one machine. And that little BX is going to fit into some places your big tractor is not.

 

[4570Man]

A better comparison might be: do you drive screws with a hand screwdriver, now that you have a Li-ion impact screwgun?

Any CUT is going to be a compromise, even your M59TLB. A Swiss Army Knife of tools, compact utility tractors are the tool to buy when you want only one machine. And that little BX is going to fit into some places your big tractor is not.

There’s a few times that where the mini is the only tool for the job but a M59 will beat a similar sized mini by itself 95 percent of the time. A mini really isn’t a by itself tool. It has to have a loader machine working with it. Even then with all the time you wasted getting both machines there the M59 would have a big lead.

 

[dragoneggs]

Then buy a SCUT to cut your grass, clean up the garden, ...if you need a very expensive powered hand shovel buy a backhoe attachment for the SCUT.

I think that all depends on the tasks at hand on one's property. I have made several long trenches for water lines, power, drainage, etc on my property with my little BH along with digging out stumps, planting trees/plants, digging a pond, diversion ditches and some sloped trails. I wouldn't have done hardly any of it with a hand shovel, maybe a hole for a plant to two.

Not arguing that it is a bit of a luxury vs. renting, but if you have the projects, it is extremely useful. I also don't have the time to rent and get a job done in quick order. Having it available anytime is great.

 

[Code54]

I have cut a bunch of trails along the steep hills in WV and found the mini ex is 10X better than a TLB for that task. I have a KX91 mini, and we have a BX25 and MX5100. After seeing your photos rent a mini for the week and knock it out. Have a small TLB for upkeep and other tasks down the road. I have cut across some stupid steep stuff and when you start, build a level base and keep working forward across the slope. Dig from the high side and dump on the low side, press the dirt down tight with eh bucket, even/level with front blade and move forward and repeat. You can get moving at a pretty good rate as you get better operating the machine and you are always working on a solid platform.

 

[otlski]

I have a trails through steep terrain. Whatever method you use to establish the trail, I would make it minimum a width and a half of whatever wheeled vehicle you intend to use on it regularly. In this way you can control ruts by driving down the middle one time, off to the right the next, then off to the left after that. It also keeps the pucker factor down by having the extra maneuvering room.

 

[Code54]

I have a trails through steep terrain. Whatever method you use to establish the trail, I would make it minimum a width and a half of whatever wheeled vehicle you intend to use on it regularly. In this way you can control ruts by driving down the middle one time, off to the right the next, then off to the left after that. It also keeps the pucker factor down by having the extra maneuvering room.

Good advice!

 

[dfkrug]

There’s a few times that where the mini is the only tool for the job but a M59 will beat a similar sized mini by itself 95 percent of the time. A mini really isn’t a by itself tool. It has to have a loader machine working with it. Even then with all the time you wasted getting both machines there the M59 would have a big lead.

As I said, a CUT is one machine that does a lot of different jobs, and none of them as good a special-purpose tool. Nothing digs like an excavator, nothing loads like an articulated wheel-loader, nothing moves dirt like a dump truck, etc.

 

[agiardin]

Thanks for all of the feedback. It was especially helpful to hear from the folks who have done similar work before.

I think I'll probably end up getting some quotes to hire it out, and if that's too expensive I'll try renting a mini excavator from the local yard and see how that goes, to decide on whether I want to buy one or if maybe it will make sense to continue renting and finish the job.

 

[dragoneggs]

Thanks for all of the feedback. It was especially helpful to hear from the folks who have done similar work before.

I think I'll probably end up getting some quotes to hire it out, and if that's too expensive I'll try renting a mini excavator from the local yard and see how that goes, to decide on whether I want to buy one or if maybe it will make sense to continue renting and finish the job.

If you know where you want your paths, yeah get a quote or three. They can rough it in and you can pretty them up and get some experience with your TLB rather than starting from scratch. A box blade might be in your future as well.