Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[aczlan]

Tesla is not replacing motors or other such things as "incremental upgrades". Tesla does revise and upgrade system firmware. I quit counting a couple years ago when my 2013 Model S had about 10 over-the-air firmware updates sitting in my driveway.

Tesla does not wait for new model year to make changes. Changes go into production as soon as they are ready. In my case folding outside mirrors were added to the option list after my car was ordered. I contacted Tesla and had the option added to my car before it was built.

Another example is how Tesla has changed TPMS provider. Mine does not display tire pressures, new does. Tesla will retrofit my TPMS to the latest with display, for only $700. Thanks, but no thanks.

Sorry, I should have said that they're replacing motors frequently under warranty with newer versions. Specifically this was on the model S around 2014. Here are a couple stories referencing it:
Tesla Model S Drive Unit Replacement by the Numbers
Tesla Model S Drive-Unit Replacements: How Big A Problem? (note this story references some people who have had three to six sets of drive units replaced).
Can you imagine somebody having an ICE vehicle and having 2, 3, or even 6 engines or transmissions put into it while under warranty?

Aaron Z

 

[Gale Hawkins]

airbiscuit and California extending my years of safely driving is the main reason I am interested in something like the model Y. From the 2016 Leaf I know I love EV's but they did add some auto braking and lane keeping just recently. I would not want to pass out and cross the center line or ram a barrier at full cruise control speeds.

After reading Ashlee Vance's 2015 book about Elon Musk I realize he is really committed to making the world a better place. Thankfully he is both big talk and big do.

This spring I was turning left crossing two lanes of traffic to get to the middle lane in the 2010 F-150 with the Model B Allis Chambers engine block with two light ratchet tie downs and got hit in the left rear wheel and spun 90 degrees with me headed in the right direction setting in the center turn lane. I saw two lines of cars coming at a distance but near me or behind the big towing mirrors was a 1996 small gray Buick the color of the pavement on a gray over cast day. I never saw it period and have may have just been looking over it. After to police said ok I drove it back into the parking lot where I came out from. The side air bags saved me from hard impact with the door and glass window so I did not go get checked out but the son brought me another tire and wheel since the tire was leaking quickly.

More on the other driver. The report said she never hit her brakes or horn or steer towards the shoulder because she did not have time. Since I never saw the car I just take her word for that. The adjuster said she was 87 and very feeble as not good use of her legs. There were three in her car and all three checked out OK at the hospital. I was very concerned about her and helped get her door open but since there was nothing more then a little steam we did not try to get her out of the car over fire concerns since the police were there quickly.

I went back to my truck. The block was still strapped but something was in the road from my bed so I put it back in the bed of my truck then started helping the police with their questions, etc. Once they got their photos and my info they said it was fine to move it out of the road and they got more info while I was in the parking lot. The Buick was a mess in the front end but no air bags deployed in her car and it was towed. Because she knocked me out of her way her car did not stop at the point of impact which was a good thing impact wise.

This accident set me on the course of think about self driving vehicles in general and the Tesla specifically. I have no way of knowing if a Tesla would have help prevent me from pulling out because I am clueless how they work in cases like that. What I got to thinking about was if she had a self braking feature that was engaged that had given me 2 more seconds I would have been out of her lane.

The blow to my truck was hard. It bent my left axle tube both springs and shocks and the outside of the bed box. The rear bumper we reused and the frame and bed box were still true. I got two used springs and new rear shocks as well of a nice used complete rear axle that looked new when we pulled off the rear cover. The adjuster told me I was $1200 from being totaled out so I shopped for the used parts myself. This was the same body shop that got it up in nice shape the year before and he knew I basically use it to tow the tractors and other stuff like that so we reused the head liner and rear bumper but those air bags and control modules are not cheap but we when with all new safety parts from Ford and he worked on it between other jobs so he had it for a few months but it turned out nice and did not get totaled.

Well that got long. The age 87 and being feeble could be me in 18 years or before I realize so I am working towards getting one in a few years hence the used Model Y plan. There are other cars with more driving aids each year but Tesla is just light years ahead technology wise and over all safety.

 

[sailfast]

Sorry, I should have said that they're replacing motors frequently under warranty with newer versions. Specifically this was on the model S around 2014. Here are a couple stories referencing it:
Tesla Model S Drive Unit Replacement by the Numbers
Tesla Model S Drive-Unit Replacements: How Big A Problem? (note this story references some people who have had three to six sets of drive units replaced).
Can you imagine somebody having an ICE vehicle and having 2, 3, or even 6 engines or transmissions put into it while under warranty?

Aaron Z

That is 5 or 6 years ago. A lifetime in Tesla years....
At least:
2 battery designs ago
3 motor designs ago
And who knows how many dozens of free remote updates ago.

Yes you keep picking nitch scenarios where today electric is not the best solution, but who knows what it will be in the future.

 

[Grumpycat]

Sorry, I should have said that they're replacing motors frequently under warranty with newer versions. Specifically this was on the model S around 2014. Here are a couple stories referencing it:
Tesla Model S Drive Unit Replacement by the Numbers
Tesla Model S Drive-Unit Replacements: How Big A Problem? (note this story references some people who have had three to six sets of drive units replaced).
Can you imagine somebody having an ICE vehicle and having 2, 3, or even 6 engines or transmissions put into it while under warranty?

Aaron Z

My 2013 Tesla Model S is on the original motor.

Tesla had a bearing problem in the "transmission" that prematurely failed. Yes, they replace with an updated unit just as every automaker does when such a design defect is discovered. No they did not "upgrade". New vehicles since 2014 have not been receiving the routine "upgrades" you describe. Spend a few minutes with any vehicle parts diagram and you will find numerous P/N's superseded with a new P/N.

Another factor you (and Consumer Reports) ignore is that this was a very new vehicle to a totally new manufacturer willing to do whatever it takes. When noises developed their (very correct) solution was to swap the drive unit and bring it in for analysis. Musk said they learned they had swapped a bunch for a high current cable not being secured to the chassis. There was enough current for magnetism to whack the cable against motor and aluminum panels. The solution was about $1.00 of cable ties. These were cars getting multiple drive unit swaps because the noise was not in the drive unit.

Rather than teach Service Centers how to disassemble and repair the drive unit, Tesla ships a complete refurbished unit for swap. Takes 4 hours shop time to make the swap.

 

[California]

This spring I was turning left crossing two lanes of traffic ...

I see a couple of points illustrated here.

1) Never buy a car that's the identical color as the other guy's dirty windshield/mirrors/side windows! In a casual glance those cars are invisible.

2) If either of those vehicles had the accident avoidance features of present Teslas - nearly certainly the cars wouldn't have collided.

 

[Grumpycat]

airbiscuit and California extending my years of safely driving is the main reason I am interested in something like the model Y. From the 2016 Leaf I know I love EV's but they did add some auto braking and lane keeping just recently. I would not want to pass out and cross the center line or ram a barrier at full cruise control speeds.

Buying my Subaru Outback in January 2016 the Eyesight system was mandatory on my options list. Or something like that from other manufacturers. After shopping I felt Subaru had the best overall package. Some months later my elderly parents saw it for the first time and asked to drive. Its far from Tesla Autopilot which is probably just as far from the future Tesla Full Autonomous. The Subaru beeps when crossing painted lines if the driver doesn't signal a turn. It will brake if it things a collision is imminent. And the cruise control will pace the car ahead all the way to a stop. Eyesight uses stereo video cameras for range detection. Shuts down in heavy rain because it can't see.

During the drive a car pulled out in front of my Dad in a parking lot. The Subaru set off its alarms and started to brake. Dad was also braking so the car surrendered to his control. A month later my parents were the proud owners of a 2017 Subaru Outback.

My sister has a Model X which I have driven on Autopilot. Its nice but not worth $30,000 to me to trade my S for a 3 with Autopilot. Grates me that my Subaru has a superior cruise control than my Tesla which has traditional dumb cruise.

I doubt Tesla Autopilot would have helped in the situation you describe with the F-150. Might have sounded alarms. However a modern Tesla has about 7 full time video cameras which will record to a formatted USB stick. You would have been able to record the event for review to know what really happened.

Am sure the anticipation may kill you after a test drive but you really should contact Tesla and schedule a test drive. They won't mind if your purchase is a year in advance, they are not commissioned sales.

 

[Jstpssng]

I see a couple of points illustrated here.

1) Never buy a car that's the identical color as the other guy's dirty windshield/mirrors/side windows! In a casual glance those cars are invisible.

2) If either of those vehicles had the accident avoidance features of present Teslas - nearly certainly the cars wouldn't have collided.

Another point; daylight running lights might have helped avoid this accident.

 

[PILOON]

Lots of interesting facts in this discussion.

In future I guess, if electric proceeds as suspected, is who will maintain the present road system?
There is only one electric grid, no special one for cars so therefore everyone on the grid will be maintaining our roads?
I.E. each and every taxpayer be it a teen or retired person even though he has no vehicle?

Then the question of grids being able to handle the charging loads as well as many homes with minimal amperage.

While pollution is a main point are we only displacing the source?

Seems to me that all the arguments somewhat sound similar to 'perpetual motion' of yore.

Recycling plastics may just be minor compared to recycling the batteries of EV's.

 

[California]

Lots of interesting facts in this discussion.....

Seems to me that all the arguments somewhat sound similar to 'perpetual motion' of yore.

Looks to me more like the arguments over evolution.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Another point; daylight running lights might have helped avoid this accident.

This is one thing that should have saved the day but she did not have her head lights. I typically only make right turns on that road or drive to where there is a traffic light. I was told since then at UPS do not approve left turns on a 4 lane road. I am back to doing right turns as well.

Grumpycat it was Eyesight that first got my attention a few years ago. I know a person that the car beeped at her then applied the brakes when a person stopped to turn into a business. It saved a rear ending. I was going to get a Outback at some point and was the reason I bought the $6K 2010 base Forester to learn the brand before laying out a lot of money for a new one with driving assist.

I purchase the 2016 Nissan Leaf to learn more about the EV's and how Nissan honor battery replacement warranties. After a month I called today to see where they were at on my battery replacement and the service writer said there was talk of buying my car back vs honoring the 8 year/100K battery warranty as the selling Nissan dealership told me they would do when the battery dropped 4 of the 12 battery health bars. Tomorrow I guess I will have to work with Nissan National to help them with the warranty concept thing. The car looks new like with 25K miles and I need it to last at least 4 more years. The state of the 2016 30 wKh battery health is down to 63% so my 107 range was down to 45-60 miles depend of town or interstate driving. They said the list price is now $12,500 for a new battery of course that is not their cost. The highest I have heard was $8500 installed at a dealership. There is even talk of the Nissan not making a go of it in the USA.

Future of Nissan in doubt, says Carlos Ghosn - BBC News

A modest proposal: Nissan should leave the USA