Corona Virus #7

[Citydude]

This Corona lockdown has got me doing things I have not done in years... like making hash browns. It has been probably 10 years.
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Oh man, that looks good.

 

[D2Cat]

At exactly what point did we become a society that instead of listening to a doctor's advise and following it...We started telling the doctors what medications WE thought we should be taking...mostly based on advertising, hearsay etc...?

Do you remember when we were told to get another Dr's opinion to confirm a diagnosis? It was probably in the mid '70's when the women's lib movement was being presented. You've got to be you own person, no one can tell you what to do. I think it was all about that time!

 

[Gale Hawkins]

Well, you drink a beer and I'll start my 5 day dosage cocktail if I get it.

I hope you are able to get your Rx filled because your plan sounds reasonable. We all know there is no cure for most any disease including COVID-19 or cancer, etc. Medically speaking to call something a cure it would mean that solution would have to work for 100% of all cases of that disease 100% of the time. Aspirin is not a cure for head aches if one person with a headache takes aspirin and the headache did not go away soon.

COVID-19 is caused by a specific type of corona virus hence any chemical with antiviral properties may or may not help lower the risk of getting COVID-19.

Two supplements that I have tried over the last 5 years are Artemisinin (sweet worm wood) and Quercetin both being plant based. Officially I have had Ankylosing Spondylitis for 50+years and since earning my OD degree in 1986 and the internet being invented I have been looking for ways to improve my quality of life and reduce the risk of a premature death from all causes.

Naturally Artemisinin got my attention and it may have been in one of the antitumour protocols that I have tried over the years but tick fever usage sounded interesting as well.

Artemisinins: their growing importance in medicine

Trends Pharmacol Sci. 2008 Oct; 29(10): 520?27.
doi: 10.1016/j.tips.2008.07.004
PMCID: PMC2758403
PMID: 18752857
Artemisinins: their growing importance in medicine

"Other potentially useful properties of artemisinin compounds

In in vitro studies, several groups have reported that artemisinins have antiviral properties. Artemisinins reduce replication rates of hepatitis B and C viruses [91,92], a range of human herpes viruses [93?5], HIV-1 [96], influenza virus A [93,97] and a bovine viral diarrhoea virus [98] in the low micromolar range. Artesunate was also effective at reducing CMV (human herpes virus 5) copy number in an immunosuppressed 12-year-old child [99] and was used (100 mg per day, orally) for 30 days without attributable toxicity. Artemisinins also have some antifungal properties against Pneumocystis carinii in vitro [100,101], although artemether was not curative in two in vivo studies in immunosuppressed rats [102,103]. There are several other disease models, such as those for rheumatoid arthritis [104?06], nephritic syndrome [107], pancreatitis [108] and lupus nephritis [109,110], in which artemisinins have produced promising results. In the case of lupus nephritis, artemisinin has been used for three years in a human study, with positive effects on the disease state [111]."

Quercetin, Inflammation and Immunity

Nutrients. 2016 Mar; 8(3): 167.
Published online 2016 Mar 15. doi: 10.3390/nu8030167
PMCID: PMC4808895
PMID: 26999194
Quercetin, Inflammation and Immunity

"Abstract

In vitro and some animal models have shown that quercetin, a polyphenol derived from plants, has a wide range of biological actions including anti-carcinogenic, anti-inflammatory and antiviral activities; as well as attenuating lipid peroxidation, platelet aggregation and capillary permeability. This review focuses on the physicochemical properties, dietary sources, absorption, bioavailability and metabolism of quercetin, especially main effects of quercetin on inflammation and immune function. According to the results obtained both in vitro and in vivo, good perspectives have been opened for quercetin. Nevertheless, further studies are needed to better characterize the mechanisms of action underlying the beneficial effects of quercetin on inflammation and immunity."

The value of supplements vary from person to person. Fixing up old tractors is a hobby I enjoy. Fixing up my old body is another hobby I enjoy. I get bored easy therefore golf as a hobby never made sense to me.

 

[ultrarunner]

Related:

Hospitals Need to Repair Ventilators. Manufacturers Are Making That Impossible - VICE

Yes... it is something akin to planned obsolescence with teeth. Just last month a rep was in and noted we were using a machine that manufacturer stop support December 31, 2019.

The ramification is manufacturer requires annual factory service which no is no longer offered. I serviced it which ticked off the rep so she sent an letter of official notice that said it had come to the manufacturer we are using non supported device and assume all liability... that was enough to buy a new 25k replacement.

 

[California]

Even if they come out with a magic vaccine/cure just the worldwide distribution will take months if not years.

Polio vaccine was administered to most of the US population over a few weeks, and within weeks of final authorization, in about 1953. I was a little kid, maybe it was longer, but that's what I remember hearing at the time.

 

[IslandTractor]

As an academic research scientist, I fully understand the concerns. However, the sad state of the matter is that self-promotion and science go hand-in-hand in today's research climate. If you aren't self-promoting, making strategic connections, etc., your chance for continued research productivity through a steady stream of funding is about zero. I can't count the number of program managers that have told me, "I'm not funding a project/research question based on the scientific merit, I'm funding an individual." That doesn't mean I agree with that approach (I find it very disappointing), just that it's a necessary evil.

I think where part of the backlash comes from is the sheer amount of publicity that was received in the public media, which then outraged everyone else. I'm sure a fair amount of that is jealousy as well. "Why was their study highlighted by news media, and mine not?". I doubt the authors even anticipated the amount of traction they would get from that study. I regularly read peer-reviewed journal articles that are more flawed and more outlandish in their claims than what this study was. That still doesn't mean there isn't useful information that can be gleaned from them. As a scientist, our goal is to find the truth, and move it forward. There can be useful information in very flawed studies. In most cases, scientists reading the articles and doing research in related fields recognize this and can distinguish between claims that are backed up by the data, and those that are speculative.

A level head in response to all research claims (good and/or bad) is needed to move scientific fields forward in a methodical and progressive manner. This is not effectively accomplished by striving to tear down others based on ones perceived views of their flaws. Most scientists realize how small their respective research communities are, and that a respectful, collegial approach is needed by all. If not, as one researcher once told me, "it quickly turns into a circular firing squad." You see those exact behaviors exhibited on this forum. What is this, CoronaVirus thread #7?!?!

Yes, self promotion is a part of academia. But it must be ethical and not be irresponsible. Putting out a pilot study on YouTube before discussing it with the scientific community in a pandemic situation is dangerous and wrong. Non scientist types who do not immediately recognize the pilot/preliminary nature of the findings will act in unpredictable ways. Did the Marseille scientist know that POTUS would leap to embrace the findings before proper confirmation was available. He should have thought about that especially after that is exactly what happened. Has anyone seen a second YouTube from this group urging caution and pointing out the need to do more sophisticated studies before national policies and clinical decisions are made? I haven’t seen a hint of that. Yes, research is competitive and self promotion is part of the game but this group in Marseille has gone well over the line and is irresponsible for not putting their work in context, especially after it is clear the scientific community has expressed serious concerns. You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theater and similarly you shouldn’t yell “cure” during a pandemic.

 

[the old grind]

I went for groceries today and despite several gray-haired hoppers wearing masks you'd never know we were told to stay at home. It looked like family day, one family of 7 with two in the cart and three on foot running in circles around Mom & Dad. If they're both not working why didn't one stay home with the kids. The boys in the cart were school aged, so not much room for groceries. Fewer store staff wore masks that on my last trip 4 days ago. I think I get why CV spreads so easily and among people of all ages here in America.

As I glean from sources here and on the news what seems to be needed to kill the virus is to break down the lipid envelope. Apparently that's what zinc does when taken in doses ~10x the MDRs. Topical alcohol needs the much higher percentage than booze except maybe Everclear, soap and water needs the 20 seconds but I can usually spare 30, and bleach always was our friend when properly diluted and not splashed around willy-nilly.

I'm not nervous about anything yet, even what I'd do if I catch CV-19. IMO above average self-sufficient, I have 30 yrs of practice living comfortably alone among wonderful neighbors who check in if they haven't seen or heard me in 2-3 days. As green-heads and wood ducks disappear into their shoreline retreats I'm raking up what I neglected last fall and doing as much as can out of a wind that's been cold enough and or gusty enough to hamper getting momentum. But my house is a little neater than is typical, and life goes on ...

 

[RSR]

Yes, self promotion is a part of academia. But it must be ethical and not be irresponsible. Putting out a pilot study on YouTube before discussing it with the scientific community in a pandemic situation is dangerous and wrong. Non scientist types who do not immediately recognize the pilot/preliminary nature of the findings will act in unpredictable ways. Did the Marseille scientist know that POTUS would leap to embrace the findings before proper confirmation was available. He should have thought about that especially after that is exactly what happened. Has anyone seen a second YouTube from this group urging caution and pointing out the need to do more sophisticated studies before national policies and clinical decisions are made? I haven’t seen a hint of that. Yes, research is competitive and self promotion is part of the game but this group in Marseille has gone well over the line and is irresponsible for not putting their work in context, especially after it is clear the scientific community has expressed serious concerns. You can’t yell “fire” in a crowded theater and similarly you shouldn’t yell “cure” during a pandemic.

That's the whole point. (1) They didn't yell "cure". See my earlier posts where in their article they were very clear about it being preliminary data, needing further study, etc.. (2) As you admit, OTHERS misinterpreted their results. That is not their fault.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

A local friend of ours suggested instead of demonizing the "domestic immigrants" in our towns,
we offer to help them with shopping, fuel etc., so they don't have to go out and potentially spread the virus.
It's a win/win. They stay safely ensconced and we get to be good neighbors. Worth a thought.

In my area, housing is very short, so any domestic immigrants will be doubling or tripling with family and friends, or they will be on the street. All tourist facilities are closed, including campgrounds, hotels and motels. If they want to rent an apartment, they are out of luck. Even before the emergency, there was a 1 to 3 month waiting list to rent a house or apartment. If we should end up with large numbers of CV refugees, it will be impossible to house or care for them. Even the homeless shelters are closing to limit contagion.

On the up side, the local economy has been little effected. Farmers are still farming, ranchers are still ranching, loggers are still logging, and the mills are still running. The mills were built at a time when each shift was 200 workers. Automation has brought that down to 50 workers, in the same old building but with new equipment. Physical distancing at work is not a problem, and many workers wear respirators anyway.

 

[IslandTractor]

OTHERS misinterpreted their results. That is not their fault.

If someone as powerful as POTUS misinterprets your work and urges rapid adoption in a press conference, a responsible scientist issues a clarification. If you know your work is being acted upon prematurely then an ethical scientist doesn’t sit on their hands and enjoy the free publicity. If they do then it is their fault.

Fauci was correct in deferring action. So was the head of the FDA (before he folded). The Marseille group should have backed them.