Drstrangeglove
Silver Member
There was a guy near us that picked up a coral snake thinking it was a garter snake to show his kids. They said he might be able to learn to brush his teeth again.
Ever encounter a coral snake?
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Yeah, this is a subject I've devoted an undue amount of thought to over the years and never liked any of the conclusions I came to. Why is it ok to drown mice in a bucket but doing the same to kittens would be animal abuse, enforced by law? Pierce a fish through the face with a barbed hook and drag it through the water, everyone's ok with that; now try doing it to a horse.
Personally wouldn't keep a dog on a chain or a cage, but i also have no problem killing snakes or possums like rats. What is animal abuse to one person might be normal to another. What is "over the top" treatment of a chicken for one person might be the minimum amount of affection for another. It boils down to Personal preference. That's something most people (myself included) don't want to hear. I mean, we felt so strongly about this that we made laws about it. But those laws don't protect cockroaches. If they were fair laws, they would.
Sigarms
Super Member
There is an old saying "due unto others as you would have done unto yourself".
As I've gotten older, pretty good words to live by IMO be it you're religious or not. That said, even those are words I do try to live by, I still kill yellow jackets if I see one near or on me.
Humans eat meat (as well as I do), which is one reason IMO for people to give thanks to the life that was given so you can eat that is in front of you. God forbid we take our food for granted, particulary those who only buy it at the supermarket.
It also gives me an understanding of why some people keep certain diets that others can't understand (such as vegetarians).
Geez, and here I thought you'd only kill a possum if they were attacking your chickens:laughing:
All that said, there is no man who does not sin, including myself, who is the greatest sinner of all. No one can cast the first rock, which I'm guilty of as well...
2LaneCruzer
Super Member
What you have is two separate human characteristics at work here. Man can survive in many different situations because he is adaptable. On the one hand, in order to protect our family and loved ones, we are caring and affectionate...and this can, and does often extend to our pets and other animals, particularly in our modern society where we are not faced with the realities of basic survival.
On the other hand, where life is hard, say for a primitive hunter gatherer surviving in the Amazon, or even farmer who makes his living raising animals for market, they can and do become hardened to the life and death of various animals. All of the "pets" I can recall farmers having, were not really pets at all, but slept in the barn, kept varmints away from the house and caught rats and mice. Even the hunting dogs were not pets per se. My Dad grew up on a farm and farmed with horses when he was a kid. I have often thought of him as being cruel; he could kill any animal, and did if necessary, without a hint of regret.
I have probably $2000 invested in our two Bostons; one is a year old and the other is about three months. I wouldn't do that if I didn't love and care for them, and wouldn't think of harming them, even though they are a bit destructive at times.
CobyRupert
Super Member
Yep...you discover that values and morals are arbitrary. That life = death.
Heck I can’t even a scratch my...ahem, chin, without it killing millions of living creatures (a square inch of human skin has over 32 million other living beings on it...look it up)
We’re talking holocaust scale numbers every time I scratch my elbow. ....but there are those who argue “that’s silly all life is not equal”.
Ok...but when you start drawing lines on which animals are ok to kill and which aren’t...we’re back to “arbitrary” rules that are just as silly.
The golden rule, I can't say for certain as I wasn't there, but I strongly suspect that at its inception was implied to be a human-on-human arrangement.
That said, I do see the value in not killing nonhumans just for the heck of it. I was taught only kill what you intend to eat but I don't like the taste of fire ants.
My point was just that the lines between extermination and murder, neglect and preservation, and between pets/livestock/wildlife/vermin are in a different place for each person.
My self imposed policy of not exterminating possums is a brand new thing; you witnessed the birth of it. I only established it in the interest of warm fuzzies for all. If we can't adapt to change in public opinion (pretty sure at one point everyone else saw them in a similar light as myself) then we become dinosaurs. They're still mutant rats to me, no matter how many ticks the internet says they eat. But I promise to live and let them live regardless.
You summed it up perfectly. I sought to understand the criteria we subconsciously use to draw our lines, and what I came up with after much pondering and having had this discussion with many others, is mainly reciprocation. An animal needs to be able to reciprocate with us, emotionally, intellectually, or both, before we will judge it more than a critter. Or in some cases just cuteness is enough (bunnies, hamsters)
We raise dogs as pets, whereas other cultures consider them as a delectable food source. Yet in India apparently they worship cows, and not only illegal but morally wrong to kill them. Then there is Buddhism, where it's considered immoral to kill the most annoying insects.
CobyRupert
Super Member
“Reciprocation” as the criteria?.....hmm....you might be on to something, perhaps “personification” is even a bigger criteria. Let’s remember millions of people had pet rocks in the 70’s. (Not much reciprocation there! 
)
Humans tend to personify just about any animal, especially the furry and baby ones (“they’re my children”). Humans are programmed that way. Heck, people also do that with their vehicles and tractors too (“the old girl runs well, but she’s a little sensitive on cold mornings, etc..”).
)Humans tend to personify just about any animal, especially the furry and baby ones (“they’re my children”). Humans are programmed that way. Heck, people also do that with their vehicles and tractors too (“the old girl runs well, but she’s a little sensitive on cold mornings, etc..”).
Sigarms
Super Member
Human on human "arrangement" per the book it was written it in it's time.
Least not forgot that Solomen had a CRAPLOAD of wives and concubines:laughing
(we seem to forget that it wasn't until the 1900's that women actually had the right to vote).Honestly, a long time ago I use to kill for various reasons. Now, if it's safe, I pull over on the side of the road and help a turtle across the street (in the direction he was going of course). As noted, I still have a distaste for yellow jackets.
Sounds corney, but it's nice to know that I've seen the birth of not killing an animal on your end if it doesn't pose a threat to your livestock or being a nuisance on your garbage cans