Well pressure tank oddity

[not2old]

When I bought my house it had one of those expensive computerized controls that ran the pump every time you opened a tap. When it acted up, I replaced it with a pressure switch and tank. I chose a switch that cost about $125.00. It comes on at 65 and turns off at 85. I then installed a regulator that I set to 60. Nice even pressure with no surges anymore and all I've had to do is replace the bladder tank once in the 8 years since.

 

[Happy1406]

I had odd water pressure issues a couple years ago. It was due to the small pipe leading to the pressure switch being clogged. I cleaned that, put on a new switch and issue solved. I'm curious how long it's going to last before it starts showing signs again. Just something to check if you decide to replace the switch.

X2.......

 

[ponytug]

30/50 and 40/60 pressure switches are just the factory settings. You can adjust them with two screws/nuts. One screw/bolt sets the low pressure and one controls the range.

It is easy to adjust, though you may end up running a few pressure tankfuls through to get the pressure settings to what you want. Just make sure that the tank pressure is below your cut in pressure, or you can get a water hammer that prematurely shuts the pressure switch off. (AMHIK...)

How long your pump runs is a function of the pressure tank size, your pump size, your inlet pressure, and the switch settings. Short cycling is hard on the motor and pump, and you want to avoid it, unless you have one of those fancy constant pressure pumps, which are designed to run continuously, though they have their own issues.

All the best,

Peter

 

[Valveman]

When I bought my house it had one of those expensive computerized controls that ran the pump every time you opened a tap. When it acted up, I replaced it with a pressure switch and tank. I chose a switch that cost about $125.00. It comes on at 65 and turns off at 85. I then installed a regulator that I set to 60. Nice even pressure with no surges anymore and all I've had to do is replace the bladder tank once in the 8 years since.

That is one way to get constant pressure, but your pump is cycling itself to death between 65 and 85 while you are getting a steady 60 PSI to the house. A Cycle Stop Valve works like a pressure regulator to deliver a strong constant 60 PSI to the house, but it also keeps the pump from cycling on and off at the same time. A CSV goes before the pressure tank/pressure switch, which if you did that with a pressure regulator would close off and melt down the pump. The fact that you already had to replace the bladder tank means the pump is cycling way too much.

 

[Valveman]

Short cycling is hard on the motor and pump, and you want to avoid it, unless you have one of those fancy constant pressure pumps, which are designed to run continuously, though they have their own issues.

All the best,

Peter

Those variable speed or so called constant pressure pumps should run continuously when using water, but some do not. They are really made to separate a homeowner from as much of their money as possible. Pump companies know you can get better constant pressure and eliminate cycling with a simple Cycle Stop Valve on a normal full speed pump. However, a CSV is very inexpensive and will make a normal pump last several times longer than the pump companies planned for it to last, so they certainly won't tell you about it. Those variable speed pumps "have many issues", which is why we have been replacing them with CSV's since 1993.
Reviews – Cycle Stop Valves, Inc

 

[RoyKing]

Your wasting a lot of money and pump wear using that much pressure, av40/60 with large bladder tank is a better idea.

 

[not2old]

I have a large pressure tank in the system and use full pressure to my yard hydrants which my wife uses a lot to water the whole yard(1 acre). You can tell when the pump cycles when you are using a fire hose nozzle on a 5/8 hose and it's about two minutes. I'm prepared to pay extra for the constant pressure in the house and was considering a second tank but hadn't gotten around to it yet. I'm still trying to figure out the theory of the cycle stop valve but would certainly consider installing one if I don't need to hire a plumber to do it. The older (72) I get the more I need to be self sufficient. This is both mental and financial. I love this site for all of the information available on almost any subject.

 

[the old grind]

My studying the concept and where/how CSV is used has been that higher the capacity and/or the more water is used the more the system benefits. It's true that with the device a smaller tank is needed, and understand that municipal pumping systems don't use onsite tanks. That does not mean their flow is constant, and they gain from reducing load/NRG-use on the pumps.

If 'simpler is better' it's not hard to appreciate not having any electrical complication, wiring, power trickle. An average guy can plumb one in if he's done any new or rework, eg: sweating copper, taping threads, etc. My tricky bit was to install the gauge some ways away from the pump, in inches. (I moved mine twice) It was a bear to adjust my CSV, but/and with my shallow well pump and paltry water use It's not so easy to quantify the results.

Anyway, my pump will not keep up with the garden hose or the washer. Pressure drop is quite noticeable if/when the tank is drawn down. I'm just waiting for my system to crash to replace it with a deep well and pump, gain flow and pressure. I wouldn't have it without a CSV if for no other reason than pump life. (plenty more)

:2cents:

 

[Valveman]

Your wasting a lot of money and pump wear using that much pressure, av40/60 with large bladder tank is a better idea.

Actually pumps like back pressure. They are also made to run 24/7/365. I have a submersible on a stock water tank that hasn't turned off in over 18 years so far. I expect it to last at least another 18 years as running 24/7 is much better on them than cycling on and off or running without enough back pressure. Increased back pressure when restricting the flow with a valve also reduces the amp draw of the pump, making the pump/motor run cooler. You can't get a large enough tank to keep the old 40/60 type system from cycling itself to death too soon.

Pumps are counter intuitive. I don't know how many times in the last 50 years I have heard someone say they were just using a little water because they didn't want to hurt their pump. Using just a little water is what causes the pump to cycle on and off, which is the worst thing for a pump. Running a lot of water so the pump stays on is best thing for the pump. The CSV just keeps the pump running constant even when using very little water like down to 1 GPM. The higher back pressure and reduced amps caused by the CSV will make the pump stay running when using water instead of cycling on and off, which will make the pump system last much longer than normal.

 

[Valveman]

I have a large pressure tank in the system and use full pressure to my yard hydrants which my wife uses a lot to water the whole yard(1 acre). You can tell when the pump cycles when you are using a fire hose nozzle on a 5/8 hose and it's about two minutes. I'm prepared to pay extra for the constant pressure in the house and was considering a second tank but hadn't gotten around to it yet. I'm still trying to figure out the theory of the cycle stop valve but would certainly consider installing one if I don't need to hire a plumber to do it. The older (72) I get the more I need to be self sufficient. This is both mental and financial. I love this site for all of the information available on almost any subject.

Cycling every two minutes is hard on the pump. There are 1440 minutes in a day, which would be 700+ cycles per 24 hours day. Most pumps have a limit of 100-300 cycles per day, and even that is just so they make it through the warranty period. If you already have the pressure tank/pressure switch set up working, adding a CSV prior to the tank or any tee is easy.
How a Pressure Tank Works and why you need a Cycle Stop Valve - YouTube