FORD 1700 NEW HEAD INSTALLED

[geozeitl]

Good afternoon, had my head sent out to be welded due to cracks around the combustion chamber. looked real nice when I got it back . I installed it with the service manual so it should be right. Also added two new exhaust valves because the old ones were badly pitted. Had all valves reground. After install I got it started and let it warm up. put it in 1st gear and drove it out of the shed. Noticed it seemed to lack power, like it wanted to die, I let it idle for a bit longer and it seemed to get better. I raised the bucket and it seemed to want to lose power and die again. Anyone have any ideas what could cause this? It is cold out but but the engine is warm and i due have anti gel in the fuel. Things I had previous repaired on this tractor were rebuilt injector pump rebuilt injectors and new radiator. Tractor ran good before I had the head taken in but it was burning out glow plugs left and right from the anti freeze coming through cracks in the head.

 

[geozeitl]

Forgot to write that these are pics before they welded the head

 

[JC-jetro]

Good afternoon, had my head sent out to be welded due to cracks around the combustion chamber. looked real nice when I got it back . I installed it with the service manual so it should be right. Also added two new exhaust valves because the old ones were badly pitted. Had all valves reground. After install I got it started and let it warm up. put it in 1st gear and drove it out of the shed. Noticed it seemed to lack power, like it wanted to die, I let it idle for a bit longer and it seemed to get better. I raised the bucket and it seemed to want to lose power and die again. Anyone have any ideas what could cause this? It is cold out but but the engine is warm and i due have anti gel in the fuel. Things I had previous repaired on this tractor were rebuilt injector pump rebuilt injectors and new radiator. Tractor ran good before I had the head taken in but it was burning out glow plugs left and right from the anti freeze coming through cracks in the head.

Nice :thumbsup:, did you do valve lash adjustment? perhaps valves might be leaking by some compression if not adjusted well. Perhaps on ignition stroke intake and exhaust valve leaking by some. Have you looked at combustion air intake and the canister type filter? Thinking old oil gotten a bit solid due to this horrible cold we're experiencing now. I use a bit of (2oz) of diesel boost per 5 gallon of diesel in my tractor as long as i remember and after 15 to 20 second of pre-heat(glow plug) my tractor starts quick ... of course if the battery has enough juice.

JC,

 

[mike48130]

Did you adjust the valve lash correctly? Check injectors and glow plugs are tight? Then I would check the compression.

 

[geozeitl]

Thanks for the replies, I set the lash when the engine was cold. Not sure if it matters or not.
Made sure the piston was TDC when setting them. Compression was checked earlier and was 390 psi on both cylinders

 

[JC-jetro]

Thanks for the replies, I set the lash when the engine was cold. Not sure if it matters or not.
Made sure the piston was TDC when setting them. Compression was checked earlier and was 390 psi on both cylinders

You are right. As the engine heats up valves elongate and basically all the metal expands just a bit so a hot engine does not show the actual gap. Now the owner's manual says , do the valve lash adjustment when the engine is cold and right in the same paragraph says do it at Idle. I don't know how the heck you can do it cold while engine is idling, adjusting the the screw with the screwdriver while rocker arm is going up and down and oil is splattering all over the place and using the feeler gauge all at the same time . It's totally nuts unless they have some special jig to do it with, doubt it!! Makes no sense to my estimation. On my IT service manual it basically says, do cold when each cylinder is at TDC on compression stroke. The rocker arm should be a bit lose on both intake and exhaust valve and both valves closed. Rotating engine crankshaft 360 degrees CCW should put next or second piston on TDC. On the crankshaft pulley there are two notches and a metal pointer on timing cover to verify TDC location, TDC is the first notch and the second notch is 30 degrees advance for when the injector should inject fuel, totally different discussion but the TDC part of it is the important thing for this discussion . I have two PDF attached to this post, one from Ford's original Owners Manual and one from IT service manual. I have checked mine cold using IT manual. Make sure the gap is .012 inch or 0.3 mm on both valves.

 

[Tazz]

It almost sounds like it's starving for fuel when the demand for it is higher. As in when driving or lifting the bucket. Is there a reason the fuel is not being fully delivered due to injector lines, filter, or a connection to the pump/governor? I'm just guessing at the relationship between power loss and power required at the time.

 

[JC-jetro]

It almost sounds like it's starving for fuel when the demand for it is higher. As in when driving or lifting the bucket. Is there a reason the fuel is not being fully delivered due to injector lines, filter, or a connection to the pump/governor? I'm just guessing at the relationship between power loss and power required at the time.

True enough, but if the rig worked fine before head replacement, then replacement has no direct bearing on the injection pump or it's timing. Something might have been dorked up with removal of injection lines and or the injectors themselves. There might be a chance that enough air is not bled in the lines all the way to fuel filter.

JC,

 

[Tazz]

True enough, but if the rig worked fine before head replacement, then replacement has no direct bearing on the injection pump or it's timing. Something might have been dorked up with removal of injection lines and or the injectors themselves. There might be a chance that enough air is not bled in the lines all the way to fuel filter.

JC,

That's what I was thinking too. Maybe something that was moved or removed to get to the head.

 

[arto98607]

Why did the cylinder head crack in the first place - were the injectors really bad before you dad them rebuilt?

Just asking because a tractor Diesel engine heads do not crack without a reason...

 

[geozeitl]

Hey thanks for the replies everyone When l bought the tractor their was no temp gauge on it , there was a amperes gauge. I wonder if they new about it and swapped gauges to cover the overheating issue. I had the tractor for a year already so no use crying now. Installed a temp gauge awhile back and it really doesn't get hot until until you work it. Seem to get antifreeze coming out of the overflow after running it I'm going to do a leak down test this weekend and see what l find. Hope to send some pics

 

[arto98607]

Interesting.

My Ford 1310 does also burp small amounts of coolant when the engine is worked hard, but has never overheated in the 23 years I have owned it.

I need to check the coolant level regularly & add a small amount maybe couple of times a year.

I wish there was an overflow bottle in it, but the space is very limited in-between the radiator & engine and have so far not figured where and how to mount one.

There must be some high quality small overflow tanks available.

Anyone know of good small overflow bottle solution / brand?

 

[geozeitl]

I did forget to mention that l did have the injector lines off when l installed the head gasket, l bled them all the way to the injectors where l had a good flow of diesel out of both lines

 

[JC-jetro]

Interesting.


Anyone know of good small overflow bottle solution / brand?

I told you guys , I specialize in "redneck solution" when necessary. Do you have a plastic jar of Peanut butter? clean a used plastic jar, drill a hole in he lid just slightly smaller that overflow rubber hose, shove the hose in the hole, extend it in the jar all the way to the bottom, fill 1/3 of the jar with coolant, and use my favorite thing" bailing wire" to attach it to the engine or frame frame. Please look at the pics below. Any overflow would be caught there when the radiator cap spring lift up to burp and when the engine is cold it sucks the same amount right back in the radiator.That is the original jatr from 10 years ago and I've got plenty of more jars where the original came from


Geozeitl,

1- my tractor also runs on the cool side. it is okay. take some cardboard about 12x12 inch and it between radiator and screen . That would help to raise the temp up in the cold condition. I always have it installed in the winter and it would bring my temp needle to 1/2 way mark and my tractor appreciates it.
2-Get yourself a non-contact infra-red temperature reader and measure temp and compare with needle location. Record it so you would have a base line for you temp sending unit an and the gauge to calibrate or have metal picture of what the gauge is saying. On most gauges you do not have a calibration pod to adjust calibration.
3-Overflow is fine. Look at my comment above to arto98607
4- glad you bled the air completely in the injector line. You can adjust throttle level . If you follow the link from accelerator pedal to injector you can see where you can adjust up or down.b Let me know and i can post pic on that.

JC,

 

[arto98607]

I told you guys , I specialize in "redneck solution" when necessary. Do you have a plastic jar of Peanut butter? clean a used plastic jar, drill a hole just slightly smaller that overflow rubber hose, shove the hose in the hole, extend it in the can all the way to the bottom, fill 1/3 of the jar with coolant, and use my favorite thing" bailing wire" to attache it to the engine, frame. Please look a the pic below. Any overflow would be caught there when the radiator cap spring lift up to burp and when the engine is cold it sucks the same amount right back in the radiator.That is the original can from 10 years ago and I've got plenty of more can where the original cam from

...............Zip................

JC,

Thank you JC-jetro
I will take a closer look at that and have done a similar solution many years ago on my Grasshopper Diesel mower.

geozeitl,
Sorry, not trying to hijack your thread!


Below is shown my solution for oil pressure & temperature gauge mounting a long time ago.
Coolant burping starts at around 220 F, but this gauge location allows for easy monitoring (also when running a PTO chipper).
It's always an indication of clogged factory "bug screen" in front of the radiator.





Cheers,

 

[JC-jetro]

I like you gauge set up. My OEM still works just fine , but you made a good mod. I don't have a loader though.

For reference these are my resistance measurement and coincident gauge needle position and associated temps taken by infra red thermometer fr my 1700.


Tractor Operating temps:

Cold: sender=690 ohms, T housing = 98 , Radiator= 98 , Head=98 , Exh Man=98

Operating temp: sender=140 ohms, T housing = 172 , Radiator=170 , Head=174 , Exh Man=192


1/8" , right of middle: sender=92 ohms, T housing = 196 , Radiator= 196 , Head= 197 , Exh Man=210

Hot
1/8" left of H: sender=66 ohms, T housing = 210 , Radiator= 210 , Head=212 , Exh Man=250

 

[arto98607]

I like you gauge set up. My OEM still works just fine , but you made a good mod. I don't have a loader though.

...........Zip...........

Thanks,

My 1310 dash is all original and did not have a temp or oil gauges only warning lights, and I did not want to change the dash!

It's been a fine little tractor and I am going to repaint the hood one of these days.
I have new decals & paint already, just a matter of other priorities!

 

[geozeitl]

Good Sunday morning, well l did a leak down test yesterday afternoon, the results were at about 80psi air pressure, going threw the injector holes no leaks at the exhaust on both cylinders bad leaks at the air intake on both cylinders, l did double check the pistons were TDC. Also had air coming out of cylinder head 2 when testing cylinder 1. No air coming out of the dip stick hole or oil cap hole Thank God for that. I did have the valves re ground not sure why the intake is leaking like that on both Also the head gasket maybe bad. I bought it on line at Weavers compact tractor parts. I should of bought it right from a Ford/NewHolland dealer instead. Going to take the head off today and see. Will get some pics out when it's off

 

[JC-jetro]

Good Sunday morning, well l did a leak down test yesterday afternoon, the results were at about 80psi air pressure, going threw the injector holes no leaks at the exhaust on both cylinders bad leaks at the air intake on both cylinders, l did double check the pistons were TDC. Also had air coming out of cylinder head 2 when testing cylinder 1. No air coming out of the dip stick hole or oil cap hole Thank God for that. I did have the valves re ground not sure why the intake is leaking like that on both Also the head gasket maybe bad. I bought it on line at Weavers compact tractor parts. I should of bought it right from a Ford/NewHolland dealer instead. Going to take the head off today and see. Will get some pics out when it's off

well, sorry to hear that but glad you found the culprit. There is no way to ignore that. Before you take the head off, did you try to re torque the head bolts in order to possibly eliminate the air leak out of cylinder #2?. Is there a possibility they grounded the valve too much or mixed and match exh/int valve from cylinders. The time I had do a valve job on my very old car I made a diagram of valve layout on card board and poked holes to match. I then ground the valves and made sure they are going exactly where they went originally. At least , you don't have to deal with ignition and injector timing doing it again. One last thing was the surface of head flat and true checking by a ruler? any warpage there due to heat? I was wondering if shimming the spring might make the valve tighter against the head, just don't know how you can do without taking the head off dropping the valve in he cylinder.

JC

 

[geozeitl]

Happy Friday, sorry for the long delay. Having issues getting my password renewed on here and was ready to pull my hair out. Well, pulled the head off and found another crack at the the precombustion chamber. Like I said before, only ran it for a total of 40 minutes and it was not overheated. Also previous when I did the leak down test had a lot of air coming out of the air intake. I took it back to the machinist that reground the valves. The next day he called and said the intake valve holes were a slight oval shape, how did that happen? Turns out he or someone never did a pressure test on it after the reseating of the valves to check for leakage. He really apologized and reseated the valves and tested it, all good and why me? I sent the head back to the company that did the welding on it for the crack repair. at least it had a six month warranty on their work. I did not hear back from them yet. One thing I did notice, when removing the injectors they were lose. I know they were tight when I put them in with that copper washer. Is their a torque spec for them, my manual doesn't say anything. Looking for any ideas why it would crack again and why the injectors would be lose. Have some pics of the new cracks, notice all the carbon on the pistons and in the cylinders. Thanks again for all your insight