Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

[NoTrespassing]

The bias is that 100% EV is 'ahead' and less than that is 'behind'. The fact is that Toyota's Prime line (Prius and Rav4 at the moment) are far superior overall to any EV for most uses. An EV is only useful if you are a commuter. Anyone who travels more than about 200 miles at any time would be grossly inconvenienced by an EV. Even the fast charging stations take way too long.

Tomorrow, I am driving our Prius Prime 850 or so miles north to visit my elderly parents. I will need about 12 gallons of gas and no prolonged stops unless we want a break from driving. If I was driving an EV, I would need to stop for a couple of hours 2 or 3 times at a minimum. This would turn my 12.5 hour drive into 16-18 hour marathon. Most likely, it would mean I would need to stay in a hotel along the way, eat more meals out and...wait for it...use more power and a ultimately contribute more total CO2 to the environment than the 12 gallons of gas I will use.

Toyota is trying to slow the EV roll precisely because they are ahead on better alternatives and when the government starts trying to decide what is better in a fluid situation, they tend to make really bad decisions that benefit their constituents or donors rather than the country as a whole.

Sidebar - to those advocating a flat tax...a national sales tax makes more sense. Sales taxes are harder to avoid so everyone pays. Income taxes are only paid by people who make money legally. Don't worry about those who are 'poor'. As a benevolent society, we have programs for those people. Who cares if they pay in sales tax along the way, they will get back many times more than that in government payments. Some of our states with the best state government budgets (liberal and conservative) are among the handful who do not tax incomes. Of course, the only way you get that solution is by amendment to abolish the income tax...wishful thinking.

Wow 70 mpg is awesome if that's what you're getting. I see they're only rated at about 50 mpg highway. How do you manage to get that mileage?

To your "sidebar", I'm against a national sales tax. I think it's anti growth, negative to consuming, and promotes black markets. I also think corporations should not be taxed.

Kevin

 

[Jstpssng]

You ever been in DC in the summer? Last time we were there, about 7-8 years ago, it was 100F on the mall. Stopped in traffic on a 5 lane for a couple hours in any major metro area in temps over 85 could get brutal very fast.

That was a tongue-in-cheek comment. Sorry, I forgot to use the sarcasm font.

There are a lot of problems which need to be addressed, and I have faith in our ability to do so. As mentioned previously though, I just don't believe that the claimed benefits are as "clean" as they are perceived to be. OTOH for somebody like me who lives 20 miles from the nearest gas station; a plugin hybrid would be advantageous. I recently read an article which descrived what they called "Super users"; 10% of drivers who burn over 1000 gallons per year. That'd be me... but I can't find that link now and it isn't in my history log.

 

[Doughknob]

...I recently read an article which descrived what they called "Super users"; 10% of drivers who burn over 1000 gallons per year. That'd be me...

I am probably closer to 200 per year. That is for me personally. About 800 per year for my family of 4 where we all drive. But pre-covid i was Closer to 600 personally.

 

[Jstpssng]

I am probably closer to 200 per year. That is for me personally. About 800 per year for my family of 4 where we all drive. But pre-covid i was Closer to 600 personally.

Between my company and personal trucks I drive about 50k miles/year.

 

[Jchonline]

Given the build it and they will come aspect of Superchargers, I couldn't imagine that Tesla would not list them all.


Rgds, D.

Tesla charges $$ most for use of a Supercharger. It is only some early adopters that still get it for free. Most of the Teslas on they road have to pay.

 

[Hay Dude]

I think what they should do is start smaller and more basic. Make a car with a lower, say under 20k price tag, that can do 50 miles and provide support services for them, like a “common mans car”, then make all the 0-60 in 2.5 second luxury, AWD, long range models next.
Then they can at least have the appearance that all this isn’t so only rich people can have EVs and everyone else has to ride next to a pervert in a dirty subway with Covid germs.

 

[buckeyefarmer]

You become a roadside attraction.

In NYC you become a statistic.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

What happens if you are on a trip in your EV and while stuck in a typical NYC or WDC traffic jam, your EV battery goes dead? 1000 cars, bumper to bumper behind you and in front of you?
Who/how will they get to you to recharge you?
Cynical, but it’s more of a problem than one thinks.
You can’t just “add a few gallons” to an EV. It takes time to access the vehicle and recharge while blocking traffic.
Others are bound to go dead in the ensuing wait while the original dead vehicle is waiting for/to an emergency charge.

As you know in October 2019 to start erasing some of my EV ignorance I bought a 2016 Nissan Leaf SL with a dying traction battery pack after 22K miles.

The 107 miles EPA range was down to 60 miles. This helped me to learn about the subject of range anxiety since I live 15-25 miles from my 3 Walmart options.

I am 50 miles from a fast DC charger but I risked that it would be working. Only one fast charge a day is suggested per day because of overheating the battery.

The Nissan dealership assured me I would be triggering a new battery warranty soon. That happened 35 days after I got the car home. After some pushback I started to researching and learned that Nissan was all the ropes financially speaking and predicted to be in bankruptcy by 2022 by the fired CEO. Due a Covid-19 bail out and loans from Japan the bankruptcy can has been kicked down the road I expect.

Six weeks after I trailered it 75 miles to the nearest Nissan Leaf certified dealership I got a call the battery had come in. 20 minutes later I got a call back that the car was ready for me to pick up because the 30 kWh battery had been replaced with a new 40 kWh
$13,000 (per Nissan) battery at no cost to me.

So my driving range jumped from 60 miles to 150 miles. Nine months later a guy ran a red light in a Toyota van injuring my wife and daughter. While he totaled our Leaf he landed on his rooftop sliding to a stop when it hit the curb down the road.

EVs I have learned never run empty like a gas tank. When our Leaf warns Low Range it can pop up a list of charging stations and offer directions while you still have 15-20 miles of actual range. For bull headed redneck's that plow ahead Very Low Battery displays.

About 6 miles later the computer pops up a icon (think Limp mode). I have seen it once coming up the steep Hill to the house. Since I was 300 feet from the charger I didn't test the range to Drop Dead. For some reason after I powered down I restarted the computer and the turtle was gone. Keep it mind when my 400 volt battery reports dead it's still contains 350 DC volts.

Consider buying a sub $14K EV for your own EV crash course.

 

[Gale Hawkins]

I think what they should do is start smaller and more basic. Make a car with a lower, say under 20k price tag, that can do 50 miles and provide support services for them, like a “common mans car”, then make all the 0-60 in 2.5 second luxury, AWD, long range models next.
Then they can at least have the appearance that all this isn’t so only rich people can have EVs and everyone else has to ride next to a pervert in a dirty subway with Covid germs.

You need to watch some Elon Musk YouTube videos on this subject to under the falacy of your thinking.

The next time I see one of these videos I will post a link to it here.

 

[Torvy]

It might be true if you are comparing the power used to the gasoline, but probably not if you figure the amount of power used for the same time period.

But if I get there 5 hours sooner, I am not using any additional power or gas. The EV is still on the road.

The minimum you get is 50 MPG. Cities, traffic and construction all make gas vehicles less efficient. They just charge my battery and improve my efficiency.