Earth's Hottest Month

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/ Earth's Hottest Month #141  
No it doesn’t, but losing all our industrial capacity isn’t acceptable, either.
I think we lost much of our industrial capacity because of global competition, specifically regarding labor. Other reasons too but, imho its labor.

I was born in Flint. In Flint you stumbled thru high school just so you were old enough to go to work in the plants. Unskilled labor.

Back in the day an unskilled american worker could earn a middle class living.

Those jobs have either been automated or shipped off shore.

What we ended up with is the worst public education on the planet producing many generations of unskilled and, unemployable citizens. That's ok because the govt will take care of them.

If the unskilled jobs are gone we better start producing some skilled workers.

I passed a high school the other day that had a big sign up that said

Future? Bring it on, we are prepared.

I about chit.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #142  
man oh man

gary had a special kind of reek to it. had to drive straight through prior to freeways
Ditto Akron, Ohio. You'd go out in the morning and everything would be covered in black soot. I kind of liked the smell of new rubber tires though. :ROFLMAO:
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #143  
I think we lost much of our industrial capacity because of global competition, specifically regarding labor. Other reasons too but, imho its labor.

I was born in Flint. In Flint you stumbled thru high school just so you were old enough to go to work in the plants. Unskilled labor.

Back in the day an unskilled american worker could earn a middle class living.

Those jobs have either been automated or shipped off shore.

What we ended up with is the worst public education on the planet producing many generations of unskilled and, unemployable citizens. That's ok because the govt will take care of them.

If the unskilled jobs are gone we better start producing some skilled workers.

I passed a high school the other day that had a big sign up that said

Future? Bring it on, we are prepared.

I about chit.
Yeah probably true, but high regulations and corporate taxes are frequently names reasons. China has neither of those.
Several corporations moved or considered moving manufacturing back to the US during the previous administration (‘16-‘20) proves lowering the Corp taxes and cutting regulations is enough to get some to return home. Tariffs probably help too.

I think the wages are a big reason, of course, but when you factor in shipping costs to build something in China, the ship it back here to Chicago and it’s still cheaper than building it here and shipping it to Chicago, that’s pretty astounding.

On top of that, they want a “world economy” or “one world government“. If it’s going to be one world, and it’s going to be “fair”, then everyone plays by the same rules.
 
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/ Earth's Hottest Month #144  
This is solid, or we should use financial objects like tariffs to flatten the field. Your point is probably the single largest reason we compete so poorly with China. Well said.

Best,

ed
But we don’t (well, we did and that was good, but we stopped).

There such hypocrisy in beating American companies over the head with regulations on workplace safety, wages, etc. then happily importing products made in China made with low wages, in unsafe factories with no regulations.
The same clowns get on FB and virtue signal how they ran a smokestack industry out of the US to China, import the same product back home.
Like the water & air pollution magically go away and the human suffering of low pay and unsafe conditions just disappear.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #145  
Well, I guess if everything is hunky-dorey in PA, that pretty much settles the climate change debate.

Someone made comments about tornados being excessive this year in PA and I commented that I haven’t seen they were above average and weather seemed pretty typical around here in SE PA.
I even said “of course climate changes” but I guess that doesn’t make your reply sound quite as ”interesting“.
Nice try though.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #146  
It seems like you just proved the point for the other side. If anything, heat should kill more people but it doesn't, by a factor of 20. The examples you gave of heat deaths are both anecdotal and exceedingly rare.

Hay Dude is 100% right. The system is mostly closed and self correcting. Increases in CO2 lead to increased plant life which decreases CO2 and increases O2. Don't confuse your Hollywood image of hot to mean desert. The historical record and common sense both show that increased global temps would lead to more global free moisture. Anyone who lives in cold climates can tell you about how much drier it is in winter when the moisture is frozen. Think an increase in rainforests and O2.

Most of the scientists who agree on this climate change hoax are using the same data that was proven to be manipulated years ago. You cannot simply travel back in time to collect real data.

I am sorry that you and others have been the pawns of people who have goals in mind that have nothing to do with climate and everything to do with power.

Eh, I'll probably have to log off this thread now, because folks like yourself come in with their minds made up, and don't want to do any research. You already know that the term climate change is just a ruse for the liberal elite to consolidate power, so, your mind won't be changed. We'll just continue to F%^ up the only climate we have and hope you were right, eh?

The conspiracy theory against climate change makes no sense to me. There isn't a clear motive or money trail to follow, it's just a faith-based belief that you deniers seem to have. The amount of research dollars flowing to this field is miniscule. And no one is situated to collect all the green energy dollars if we do make this vital shift. It's nonsense.

But anyway you didn't follow my link or do any research yourself, which only proves my point. You don't want to. Multiple accredited studies show that heat deaths outnumber cold deaths by a factor of 5-to-1 or more. I'm not here to prove that to people who aren't willing to do research themselves.

The good thing about reducing carbon emissions is that it improves human health, cleans our air, takes billions away from the actual, real corrupt conspiracy that y'all ignore, and yes, it would CREATE new jobs if we incentivize it properly. But I guess that's socialism, when somehow billions of subsidy for oil every year, is not.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #147  
There such hypocrisy in beating American companies over the head with regulations on workplace safety, wages, etc. then happily importing products made in China made with low wages, in unsafe factories with no regulations.
The same clowns get on FB and virtue signal how they ran a smokestack industry out of the US to China, import the same product back home.
Like the water & air pollution magically go away and the human suffering of low pay and unsafe conditions just disappear.

This is well said. 100% agree. Not only was everything you just said true, but for people like me that care about reducing carbon emissions, the international shipping trade is an abomination that needs reduction asap.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #148  
1. If we determined the climate was indeed changing, but, it was independent of human activity, would that be ok and accepted, or would we try to manage it?

2. On the outside chance the group of nearly everyone that overwhelmingly agrees that we are killing ourselves is wrong, will they take accountability for the tremendous debt they have created? In short, can we get R12 back if it didn't turn out to eat the ozone? Could we get the government out of health care if it somehow didn't bend the cost curve and save us all a couple a grand a year, or if the unthinkable happened and we could keep our doctor of choice?
Good questions, here are answers that are only my personal opinion.

1) No, if human activity did nothing to the climate, it would be incredibly foolish to try to engineer and manage it. Frankly I would be more scared of some of the greenwashed idiots conjuring up schemes to darken the skies and other hairbrained ideas, than I am of the actual climate change underway. We cannot engineer our way out of this mess. The answer is simple, emit less carbon starting decades ago.

2) This question is moot. We already have the data, and it shows rather conclusively that human impact is significantly adding to the changes underway. You want to believe that it is not. But you do not have data showing anything for your side, only a faith and skepticism of what is now presented and agreed upon by the overwhelming majority of the scientific community. Mistakes and poor forecasts have been made in the past. That does not invalidate the best available current science. Also what does this have to do with healthcare....
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #149  
So what if the theory that man made climate change turns out to be wrong? We all know scientists were wrong about the coming ice age 40 years ago. We know scientists botched a lot of the recent virus pandemic.
What if they are wrong and we go 30 trillion in debt and chase all manufacturing off shore (only to have the pollution right back here from China) and allow China to become world dominant?
I ask these questions because what we are now undertaking is a fundamental and permanent change to the USA. We are eliminating middle class jobs and letting another country control supply chains, even to the extent that our military weapons now have components made by a country who doesn’t have our best interests.

My question is: is all we are giving up and giving away worth a “scientific“ theory that has HEAVY political influence?

Just asking, because I think it’s too much to give up, especially knowing the same goods are going to be manufactured elsewhere under much more enviromentally dirty conditions and the pollution ends up in the same atmosphere, whether it’s produced in Chicago or China.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #150  
See, this is where the facts are so easily skewed. This topic comes up all the time and I have personally seen it debunked here on TBN more than once. But I guess it's my turn now:

NO, SCIENTISTS DID NOT PREDICT AN COMING ICE AGE 40 YEARS AGO.

So, as you can see, it only takes 4 minutes of research and reading to learn that your talking point is completely fabricated. Not by you, but, you believed it. If you base your opinion off of this flawed starting point, your position is more understandable.

But this is why I implore everyone here, and everywhere, to just DO the actual research. I don't take beliefs from news headlines on any network, and neither should y'all.

IMO, we need to restructure and reduce our trade with China regardless of climate change.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #151  
"Taxes, wages and regulations is why everything went to China."

We currently have huge (and very profitable) American corporations that pay little or no taxes. I think you can cross taxes off your list.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #152  
Wow, still unlocked
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #153  
Which brings up a good point. How many people think that just because what they think is happening around them, that means Global Warming is real?
Not me. I think global warming is real because of the melting polar ice caps and loss of permafrost regions.

Global warming is real. It is measurable and has been definitively shown to be happening. There is only one question: is it due to human activity or is it just a normal part of the planet's cyclical climactic variations?
 
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/ Earth's Hottest Month #155  
man oh man

gary had a special kind of reek to it. had to drive straight through prior to freeways
Remember everything was orange? Power lines. Power poles. Buildings. Houses. Playground equipment. Everything had an orange tint to it from the steel mills.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #156  
Not me. I think global warming is real because of the melting polar ice caps and loss of permafrost regions.

Global warming is real. It is measurable and has been definitively shown to be happening. There is only one question: is it due to human activity or is it just a normal part of the planet's cyclical climactic variations?
I agree with all of the above... especially that in bold. HOWEVER...
I do know that my pickup, tractor, snowsled, chainsaw, et.al. emit toxic exhaust fumes. I also know that air and water pollution are real, and have watched the air quality in this state deteriorate over the last 40 years... all of those tall smokestacks from coal burners out west simply send their spew higher into the air to come down elsewhere. So what harm does it do to be aware of what I"m doing, shut the engine off when it doesn't need to be running, buy the most fuel efficent vehicle that will also do what I need it to do, and otherwise consider my impact?

OTOH we're hearing the same things from "environmentalists" which have been said for decades; and it's often obvious that they are merely advancing their agenda. If we are affecting the climate there are more subtle, less controversial things which could have been accomplished long ago; merely changing to a lighter colored roofing rather than black would have tremendous cooling impact on urban areas. One pet peeve of mine; you are on the main street of anytown and as the traffic light you are sitting at turns green you see the next one turn yellow. Every block requires you to stop at another traffic light. Think of all of the fuel and time which could be saved if the lights were synchronised, so that instead of stopping at every one you only had to stop at a few. Bracket racers say that the way to lose a pound is to shave an ounce 16 times...the same can be applied to reducing pollution.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #157  
...One pet peeve of mine; you are on the main street of anytown and as the traffic light you are sitting at turns green you see the next one turn yellow. Every block requires you to stop at another traffic light. Think of all of the fuel and time which could be saved if the lights were synchronised, so that instead of stopping at every one you only had to stop at a few. Bracket racers say that the way to lose a pound is to shave an ounce 16 times...the same can be applied to reducing pollution.
We just went through dealing with some of this in South Bend. When I was a kid, back in the 60's, the streets were 2-way, there was traffic stopped at all the lights, people walking around shopping at all the stores.

Eventually they made the streets one-way and timed all the lights. One effect of that is that it made it extremely un-pedestrian friendly, and, it made it hard to park as traffic was always moving so fast that you'd have a tough time parallel parking because people were riding up on your rear. Parking on the left side of the street posed a different hazard, as it's really hard to see traffic coming at you on your right side when trying to park or leave.

The last few years they've initiated the "smart street" program. They turned all the 3 lane one-way streets back into 2 lane two-way streets again. The lights are not timed so that you can zip through town anymore. It slows traffic down considerably. Sounds horrible at first, and can be quite frustrating to impatient people like myself.

However, now that traffic has to stop, and, it's easier to park on either side of the street, and, it's pedestrian friendly, the town is undergoing quite the revival. Small shops and tons of restaurants have opened since this happened. Apartments and town homes are all rented/leased. New construction is happening for the first time in 30 years in downtown.

What's trying to be promoted is that if you want to zip through town, go around it. If you want to live and work downtown, it's now possible. You won't mind the traffic jams because you can walk everywhere you need to walk.

So you have this back and forth between people wanting to zip through town as fast as possible VS people that want to live in town and don't want them zipping through at all.

It's an interesting dynamic. Personally, I like seeing downtown come back to life. It did add about 4 minutes to my 7 minute commute, so 11 minutes isn't bad in the big picture. But when you add up the numbers, about 40,000 cars go through town each day. If they used to spend an average of 10 minutes, and now it's 12 minutes, that's a 20% increase in car-hours. And, that's at lower speeds and idling, where cars are most inefficient. So I'd guess an increase of 20-25% in air pollution and fuel consumption from cars in the downtown area due to this much nicer downtown. No one has addressed those numbers here as of yet.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #158  
See, this is where the facts are so easily skewed. This topic comes up all the time and I have personally seen it debunked here on TBN more than once. But I guess it's my turn now:

NO, SCIENTISTS DID NOT PREDICT AN COMING ICE AGE 40 YEARS AGO.

So, as you can see, it only takes 4 minutes of research and reading to learn that your talking point is completely fabricated. Not by you, but, you believed it. If you base your opinion off of this flawed starting point, your position is more understandable.

But this is why I implore everyone here, and everywhere, to just DO the actual research. I don't take beliefs from news headlines on any network, and neither should y'all.

IMO, we need to restructure and reduce our trade with China regardless of climate change.
I think one problem with the internet is you can cherry pick data and prove any point you want. I’m sure you know I could post links to show the opposite of what you linked.

My very strong opinion on this entire climate change is it’s not science, it’s opinions. Do I believe their opinions? Yes I do. How sure am I of them being correct. I’m 51% confident in the science, which means I have a lot of doubt.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #159  
We just went through dealing with some of this in South Bend. When I was a kid, back in the 60's, the streets were 2-way, there was traffic stopped at all the lights, people walking around shopping at all the stores.

Eventually they made the streets one-way and timed all the lights. One effect of that is that it made it extremely un-pedestrian friendly, and, it made it hard to park as traffic was always moving so fast that you'd have a tough time parallel parking because people were riding up on your rear. Parking on the left side of the street posed a different hazard, as it's really hard to see traffic coming at you on your right side when trying to park or leave.

The last few years they've initiated the "smart street" program. They turned all the 3 lane one-way streets back into 2 lane two-way streets again. The lights are not timed so that you can zip through town anymore. It slows traffic down considerably. Sounds horrible at first, and can be quite frustrating to impatient people like myself.

However, now that traffic has to stop, and, it's easier to park on either side of the street, and, it's pedestrian friendly, the town is undergoing quite the revival. Small shops and tons of restaurants have opened since this happened. Apartments and town homes are all rented/leased. New construction is happening for the first time in 30 years in downtown.

What's trying to be promoted is that if you want to zip through town, go around it. If you want to live and work downtown, it's now possible. You won't mind the traffic jams because you can walk everywhere you need to walk.

So you have this back and forth between people wanting to zip through town as fast as possible VS people that want to live in town and don't want them zipping through at all.

It's an interesting dynamic. Personally, I like seeing downtown come back to life. It did add about 4 minutes to my 7 minute commute, so 11 minutes isn't bad in the big picture. But when you add up the numbers, about 40,000 cars go through town each day. If they used to spend an average of 10 minutes, and now it's 12 minutes, that's a 20% increase in car-hours. And, that's at lower speeds and idling, where cars are most inefficient. So I'd guess an increase of 20-25% in air pollution and fuel consumption from cars in the downtown area due to this much nicer downtown. No one has addressed those numbers here as of yet.
^^^^^
You just described why I don't shop in-town. Many Main Streets are the artery through the region or state, not just the town. If you want a quaint little shopping experience have it on the side streets. A four lane highway is no place to encourage pedestrian traffic...
especially since they don't understand what crosswalks are for.

Years ago I was travelling from my house to someplace in NY on what should have been a 10 hour drive. I got caught in construction, and going through Vermont is always a cluster. I hit Rutland about 3 hours behind schedule and somehow the traffic thinned out. I blistered down through town doing 45, hitting every light just as it turned yellow. I'm not saying that I was right' but that's what it took to somehow get moving. The rest of the trip was mostly rural and I made up for about an hour of what I had lost... pulling into where I had motel reservations just before they locked the doors for the night.
 
/ Earth's Hottest Month #160  
folks like yourself come in with their minds made up
Couple of questions:

1. Might you be just as convinced (biased) in your arguments as others are in theirs?

2. Consider the very first sentence on NOAA's climate.gov website:

"For much of its history, our planet has been hotter—sometimes much hotter—than it is today."

Do you accept that the opening sentence at climate.gov is true?


Regarding science, a couple of questions:

1. Scientists claim Earth has had many previous ice ages followed by warming. Do you accept that science?

2. Earth's ability to warm itself from ice ages was not human affected, so something else caused the warming. Do you accept that science?

My point is-- anyone claiming to have definitive answers on exactly how our climate works is not disclosing just how much we do not know. Which is true whether the person is a laymen or a scientist.
 
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