As a customer what is acceptable to you?

[Jstpssng]

I've been looking at Dewalt impact wrenchs for several years now, and trying to convince myself to pay the extra couple of hundred for "Assembled in USA." When I finally decided to order they didn't have that anymore, so I settled on one which will (hopefully) do what I want it for.

When I received it I was surprised to see the "Made in USA" sticker on the box and tool.

 

[Hay Dude]

Most of my Dewalts say “Made in USA, materials globally sourced” or something like that.

I just can’t get over the idiots who drive industry off shore in the name of clean air/water only to see the pollution right back here again. It’s stupidity and hypocrisy rolled into one.

If we manufactured here with reasonable, responsible regulation and get rid of most corporate taxes, industry could flourish and we could hold ourselves accountable (through air, soil, water testing).

Sure is a lot better than asking them to produce medicines, engines, batteries and chemicals having no idea what they do with the pollution and have it end up in the atmosphere, ocean and soil.

 

[Oaktree]

we all shoot ours selves for buying cheapest now 90% is made in China. I work in an auto parts store and a lot of our vendors are having inventory issues with the computers. At first I thought ok I can see one or two having that issue but now if it is in our system we have figure out if it another store, hub, distribution center or manufacture and who can get it to us the fastest. It does no good when we have to turn a customer away all we can do it order it and tell you when it tells us it will arrive. Sorry for the long story but since the covid thing it has gotten worse. The new administration has not helped matters.

Not to get political, but the current administration hasn't been in power long enough to have asserted much influence on this, they're too busy cleaning up the mess left behind by the previous one who seemed to delight in picking fights with 'most every other country.

The roots of "made in the Orient" products go back a long way, to electronics in the 60s, autos in the 70s, and just continuing to snowball. It doesn't help that American workers have priced themselves out of a job.
Isn't a big part of the problem bottlenecks at a couple of west coast ports where the longshoremen seem to be having some sort of a snit?

Amazon has an advantage in that they and their resellers can buy in huge bulk when it's available and store it in warehouses. Unfortunately when they do this it often cuts out the local brick and mortar. For me, when I can, I'd rather give my $$ to the local guy. That's not to say I don't buy from Amazon because I do. But I try to do so when what I need isn't carried locally. I'm of the age that I remember small town businesses situated all around the town square. Those are largely gone now and I wish it weren't so.

Yeah, but that started waay before Amazon even existed. Malls and box stores killed off Main St. & many mom & pop merchants, if for no reason other than they were open longer, more convenient hours. Maybe being open 8-5 M-F and 8-1 on Saturday was good enough for our parents' generation, but that ain't gonna cut it today.

Not only do Amazon, Walmart, etc. have bulk pricing advantages, they also are big enough customers to get priority with suppliers. Again, this is nothing new, just a bit more extreme today.

There’s so little “Made in America” products to buy. Such a sad state of affairs. We give up production of almost everything to a country that is a menace to the rest of the world.

Part of the reason is that, at least back in the 70s there was this perception that if something was imported it was somehow better. Also, as noted above price is a huge factor in making a purchase, and unfortunately our production costs are much higher than in the orient.

You wanna see the "enemy"? Look in the mirror. I recall a conversation with a neighbor maybe 20 years ago, he was upset that his job had just been offshored. When I pointed out the shiny new camry in his driveway his response was something to the effect that "that's different". Sorry dude, you're part of the problem.

We could still be a great country, but we literally chose not to. We desperately need smart, effective leadership.

We still are a great country, despite many taking it for granted. I'd be hard pressed to name a country I'd rather live in.
If you were in charge, what would you do differently? Any damfool can back seat drive, let's hear some solutions.

 

[Hay Dude]

Not to get political, but the current administration hasn't been in power long enough to have asserted much influence on this, they're too busy cleaning up the mess left behind by the previous one who seemed to delight in picking fights with 'most every other country.

The roots of "made in the Orient" products go back a long way, to electronics in the 60s, autos in the 70s, and just continuing to snowball. It doesn't help that American workers have priced themselves out of a job.
Isn't a big part of the problem bottlenecks at a couple of west coast ports where the longshoremen seem to be having some sort of a snit?

Yeah, but that started waay before Amazon even existed. Malls and box stores killed off Main St. & many mom & pop merchants, if for no reason other than they were open longer hours that were convenient for customers. And they date back to the 70s.
Not only do Amazon, Walmart, etc. have bulk pricing advantages, they also are big enough customers to get priority with suppliers. Again, this is nothing new, just a bit more extreme today.

Part of the reason is that, at least back in the 70s there was this perception that if something was imported it was somehow better. Also, as noted above price is a huge factor in making a purchase, and unfortunately our production costs are much higher than in the orient.

We still are a great country, despite many taking it for granted. I'd be hard pressed to name a country I'd rather live in.
If you were in charge, what would you do differently? Any damfool can back seat drive, let's hear some solutions.

And that’s not “getting political”.
I just gave my solutions. Lower corp taxes, do what it takes to woo them back. Impose reasonable regulations which would clean up the environment a lot better than what the people on the other side of the world do.
This will increase middle class back to what it should be and get rid of the caste system we are headed towards.

 

[Oaktree]

And that’s not “getting political”.
I just gave my solutions. Lower corp taxes, do what it takes to woo them back. Impose reasonable regulations which would clean up the environment a lot better than what the people on the other side of the world do.
This will increase middle class back to what it should be and get rid of the caste system we are headed towards.

No more political than half the other stuff posted here.

As far as your "solutions", that ain't gonna solve squat. The environment in the U.S. is already a lot better than most of the rest of the world. The whole "middle class" thing a post-WWII anomaly based on halfway decent paying jobs that didn't require much if any education. Unfortunately, those days are gone, my friend. No one is going to work for a wage it would take to be competitive with China and most other oriental countries.

 

[Hay Dude]

No more political than half the other stuff posted here.

As far as your "solutions", that ain't gonna solve squat. The environment in the U.S. is already a lot better than most of the rest of the world. The whole "middle class" thing a post-WWII anomaly based on halfway decent paying jobs that didn't require much if any education. Unfortunately, those days are gone, my friend. No one is going to work for a wage it would take to be competitive with China and most other oriental countries.

Disagree.
As we turn our attention to air pollution from long distance shipping and the cost of shipping, producing here will become more competitive. Ships belching out smoke for 5000 miles is nothing to sneeze at and Chinese workers arent going to work for a buck an hour forever.
If you think the middle class thing is an “anomaly”, I will promise you this, once the middle class IS gone,,,,America no longer exists.

Cant you see the downside of giving away our entire industrial base to a country that openly hostile, is a bad thing?
Talk about no solutions…..let’s hear yours since you want everyone else’s

 

[Jstpssng]

If we manufactured here with reasonable, responsible regulation and get rid of most corporate taxes, industry could flourish and we could hold ourselves accountable (through air, soil, water testing).

Exactly, yet too many only look at the price they are paying without considering the full cost. As I've said in the past, the more necessary something is for life the less we are willing to pay for it. We bi*** about farming practices yet buy the lowest priced can of mushrooms on the shelf or bag of shrimp in the cooler, with no regard that they came from Thailand or the Philippines and have no idea what the growing medium was.

 

[JRH02]

Got you? File an AtoZ and call it done, Amazon will give you your money back. They get paid by both the seller and the buyer, they don't care if you receive your item or not.

Amazon is as disreputable as Walmart but people insist on poor service, poor quality, and getting rid of their reliable suppliers so all that they are left with is Amazon and Walmart.

Welcome to the future you created.

To me it's a buyer beware thing. You ever buy something from Harbor Freight as a throw away/non-critical rare use or do you buy Snap-On for a one off? Sometimes a cheap piece of $--- is just fine.

It also depends on local resources. For us, we are in the middle of nowhere. A four+ hour round trip to the big city just doesn't cut it. We get regular shipments from Amazon (which, BTW, can't be delivered - we pick the boxes up at the POB). And household things like coffee beans, spices, detergents and on and on aren't even available rurally/locally. When we do get to town its the 'guy thing' of hit and run so we can get back for chores. We don't have time to run from store to store in the big city. And yes, we'll probably hit Wally's too. Should I bring up the fuel hit going to town?

Yes, we buy locally for what we can. Usually animal feed and other heavy bulk items, or milk, fuel, etc. But times have changed for retailers and a whole bunch of other things. So I don't know of your local resources but they must be better than ours. We really appreciate the convenience.

BR,JRH

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

To me it's a buyer beware thing. You ever buy something from Harbor Freight as a throw away/non-critical rare use or do you buy Snap-On for a one off? Sometimes a cheap piece of $--- is just fine.

It also depends on local resources. For us, we are in the middle of nowhere. A four+ hour round trip to the big city just doesn't cut it. We get regular shipments from Amazon (which, BTW, can't be delivered - we pick the boxes up at the POB). And household things like coffee beans, spices, detergents and on and on aren't even available rurally/locally. When we do get to town its the 'guy thing' of hit and run so we can get back for chores. We don't have time to run from store to store in the big city. And yes, we'll probably hit Wally's too. Should I bring up the fuel hit going to town?

Yes, we buy locally for what we can. Usually animal feed and other heavy bulk items, or milk, fuel, etc. But times have changed for retailers and a whole bunch of other things. So I don't know of your local resources but they must be better than ours. We really appreciate the convenience.

BR,JRH

The same as most places: Walmart moves in with a store or two and half the business shutdown.

Amazon delivery gets more convenient and every warehouse/parts store stops stocking inventory.

Guess what happens next? That free shipping or next day shipping is going to disappear soon. The government subsidies are being pulled back for shipping incentives.

So it will be like the old days for me soon where it will be a 4 hour drive to get anything in under a week or two unless it comes in on a plane.

 

[JRH02]

As I said, times are changing. Even if EVERYONE quit buying online the inevitable will still happen. As you said there will be those trips to the big city will become more frequent if ya can offset the fuel from the savings.

In a previous small town if I went to the True Value in town I saw the same cheap stuff as in the big box store - even in the same packaging - at at least 2x the cost. The guy that owned the store was my neighbor. Cool guy. Loved him. But how do you work with those economics? His was also the small engine shop: Mowers, saws, etc. That novelty kept him going except for not finding good help at minimum wage $5.61/hr as I recall.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

As I said, times are changing. Even if EVERYONE quit buying online the inevitable will still happen. As you said there will be those trips to the big city will become more frequent if ya can offset the fuel from the savings.

In a previous small town if I went to the True Value in town I saw the same cheap stuff as in the big box store - even in the same packaging - at at least 2x the cost. The guy that owned the store was my neighbor. Cool guy. Loved him. But how do you work with those economics? His was also the small engine shop: Mowers, saws, etc. That novelty kept him going except for not finding good help at minimum wage $5.61/hr as I recall.

His cost was 2x as much because he doesn't forcibly order extreme amounts of inventory with a contract clause that failure to deliver the full order volume forfeits payment of the order.

If the supplier manages to deliver, Wally just increases the next order by another 3rd until they decimate the supplier and have a warehouse of free goods to sell.

Not to mention the tax deduction that the municipality gives to wally and not to the small business. Or the excessive part time staffing so benefits and holiday/overtime do not have to be covered.

Convince always comes at a price.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Exactly, yet too many only look at the price they are paying without considering the full cost. As I've said in the past, the more necessary something is for life the less we are willing to pay for it. We bi*** about farming practices yet buy the lowest priced can of mushrooms on the shelf or bag of shrimp in the cooler, with no regard that they came from Thailand or the Philippines and have no idea what the growing medium was.

Speak for yourself. We buy only the best we can find. And looking at the crowds of where we shop, so do many others.

 

[JRH02]

In that small town was a very small manufacturing facility. I came in as the production manager. I did a bunch of stuff. I increased wages for the line folks by ~50% based upon performance as a team and it was a knock down drag out with the 'board'. Bottom line? Even though I increased wages it was a wash. Production came up to the point where we didn't need to run as often. Each time we set a record I covered the celebration down the street. But the crew didn't need to work as often so it was a wash for weekly wages. It was an eye opener for me. I had never before encountered that style of oversight and selfishness.

So what does this have to do with Amazon and WM? It isn't too complex. The folks are getting milked and are unappreciated. It can happen in small town USA and it can happen it the big mega warehouses. At least in the bigger places there is opportunity for a voice. I am not a union guy but there is certainly a reason, IMO.

 

[JRH02]

Speak for yourself. We buy only the best we can find. And looking at the crowds of where we shop, so do many others.

I do speak for myself. If you have crowds shopping in a spot we are talking apples and oranges.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

I do speak for myself. If you have crowds shopping in a spot we are talking apples and oranges.

I see crowds when I drive past the dollars stores too... To each his own.

 

[Frankenkubota]

I have noticed a trend in the past several years where they are leaving country of origin off of the packaging and especially the web page descriptions of the items. I try to buy American made or from local owned businesses where possible. Even when possible, it's not always practical. I bought my $3,800 brush hog from a different dealer when my local guy quoted the same cutter at $1,000 higher. I will deal locally when possible but I'm not going to be stupid about it. I agree that we need better leadership but we also need the American people to wake up and start making smarter choices and decisions for the long term.

i bought the top of the line rigid chopsaw with their stand only to find it was made in china, i should have known. plus the saw and stand were both damaged in shipping.

problem was......the "made in china" markings were so well hidden it took me 5 minutes to find it.

that tells me they are ashamed.

 

[Hay Dude]

i bought the top of the line rigid chopsaw with their stand only to find it was made in china, i should have known. plus the saw and stand were both damaged in shipping.

problem was......the "made in china" markings were so well hidden it took me 5 minutes to find it.

that tells me they are ashamed.

A very astute observation
8 years ago, I bought a JOHN DEERE 15’ bush hog mower for $22,000.
Almost all the mowers parts were made in China, then shipped to Mexico for assembly.
They hide the markings well. While I admit, it’s been a good mower, but made in China? Come on John Deere. That’s profits over people taken too far. Yeah I know it’s their company and they can do damn well as they please, but that’s just…..
Come to find out all the major brands gear boxes are made in China, too whether it’s bush hog, rhino or woods.

 

[MoKelly]

Most US manufacturing went overseas when the Corporate tax rate was 35% - which was one of the highest rates in the world. Tax rates are a big factor in addition to labor costs.

Now the rate is 21% which is competitive.

But - it takes time to relocate production PLUS you have to have faith the rate won’t go back up. Do you have faith the rate won’t go back up?

MoKelly

 

[Hay Dude]

Most US manufacturing went overseas when the Corporate tax rate was 35% - which was one of the highest rates in the world. Tax rates are a big factor in addition to labor costs.

Now the rate is 21% which is competitive.

But - it takes time to relocate production PLUS you have to have faith the rate won’t go back up. Do you have faith the rate won’t go back up?

MoKelly

Lol, nope.

 

[tradosaurus]

Amazon prime delivering virtually anything to me in two days has spoiled me. I have ordered things less than $5 and things over 10k and bam they are on my porch in two days with no shipping charge. Covid has caused a lot of chaos in the supply chain and while things are out of peoples control in some cases I still find it unacceptable. For example I ordered a widget and paid in full up front for it. I was told I would have it in 12 weeks. It is now 16 weeks, I don't have my widget, the manufacturer says it is beyond their control, they don't know when I will get it, and they are doing the best they can. They literally have no clue if I will get my item next week or 30 years from now.

What are your thoughts on this? They are still selling this widget on their website with no mention on there that if you pay for and order one it might five months before you get it. Seems like a shady business practice to me. They want their orders to keep piling in because once they have your money they got you. At this point I don't know what to do. I wasn't happy about a 12 week wait but figured I could live with it. Now that they haven't lived up to that timeline I am angry and feel deceived. I can assure you that once I get my item no matter how good it is I will never do business with this company again.

I'm going to be getting rid of my Amazon Prime. I live out in the country of East Texas and it's typical to take a week to get stuff I've ordered. Also not interested in help funding Bezo's space trips.