As a customer what is acceptable to you?

[Jon Obe]

bdog,
You as a business are extremely fortunate if you can still get your product in a timely manner. My appliance business on the other hand is not so fortunate. We can look on the estimated time of delivery from the manufacturer and give a customer a lead time for their order but it changes weekly sometimes daily, so what we told them is now a lie and it is completely out of my control. We couldn’t buy a freezer for over 8 months and still can’t get most refrigerators and gas dryers! Is that my fault as a retailer? I think not. Get real!! The manufacturing world is a mess right now it will be for the foreseeable future.
Jon

 

[Root Cause]

in the sixties, if you saw something made in Japan, you would put it back thinking it must be junk.
In the 90's we scoffed at tech and machined parts. We couldn't even weld Chinese metal.
Now we have lost the skill sets to even produce most this stuff so even if you could do it, you would have to train people and it would ake time to meet the same quality we have now.
If you disagree, then why are thousands of cars and trucks sitting in parking lots waiting for 1 computer chip over the last year. I have no doubt that all the auto companies and their suppliers would have jumped on this opportunity if they could.

 

[rademamj1]

in the sixties, if you saw something made in Japan, you would put it back thinking it must be junk.
In the 90's we scoffed at tech and machined parts. We couldn't even weld Chinese metal.
Now we have lost the skill sets to even produce most this stuff so even if you could do it, you would have to train people and it would ake time to meet the same quality we have now.
If you disagree, then why are thousands of cars and trucks sitting in parking lots waiting for 1 computer chip over the last year. I have no doubt that all the auto companies and their suppliers would have jumped on this opportunity if they could.

Interestingly i just read today, China rushed nine(9) new chip manufacturing plants into construction during the last 6 months. All construction projects are 24hours around the clock. Three new chip plants are completed in construction phase, and are being tooled right now. Their final goal is to increase Chinese chip production about 430% within the year. Apparently, China has also been impacted by the world chip shortage, because they imported 30% of their chips from Korea and Japan, both of which were hit hard during the pandemic. USA has not built a new chip plant in 12 years, and current plants need updating.

 

[Root Cause]

Interestingly i just read today, China rushed nine(9) new chip manufacturing plants into construction during the last 6 months. All construction projects are 24hours around the clock. Three new chip plants are completed in construction phase, and are being tooled right now. Their final goal is to increase Chinese chip production about 430% within the year. Apparently, China has also been impacted by the world chip shortage, because they imported 30% of their chips from Korea and Japan, both of which were hit hard during the pandemic. USA has not built a new chip plant in 12 years, and current plants need updating.

thanks for the post. Very interesting.

On the outside looking in, it would seem like a slam dunk to at least upgrade an existing plant.
Guessing that this would be highly automated, it would seem to be more competitive without a lot of labor costs baked in.
Sad that we can't compete even at this demanding level.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

Interestingly i just read today, China rushed nine(9) new chip manufacturing plants into construction during the last 6 months. All construction projects are 24hours around the clock. Three new chip plants are completed in construction phase, and are being tooled right now. Their final goal is to increase Chinese chip production about 430% within the year. Apparently, China has also been impacted by the world chip shortage, because they imported 30% of their chips from Korea and Japan, both of which were hit hard during the pandemic. USA has not built a new chip plant in 12 years, and current plants need updating.

The USA has 4 new chip fabrication factories coming online (including 2 in California), however the problem with microchips and discretes production are material shortages due to supply chain security requirements, responsible foundry suppliers, and precious metals shortages from smartphone and IOT device production.

Even plastic resin is being shorted and the US hasn't been pulling this much petroleum out of the ground in 50 years. However most of that resin stock has been chewed up by PPE production.

There is a large perception that input materials have declined in volume, however we have not produced so much raw feed stock (steel is an exception due to Australia being the worlds largest supplier) for manufacturing in the world that we are consuming to date. Unfortunately it is going to disposable stuff like product packaging rather than important or durable things. And our recovery/recycling practices are pathetic to say the least.

Those chip bags you buy: how much aluminum do you think they use? How many pallets/cases do you see in an average store when you walk in? A few micrograms here a few there...

That Apple iPhone? Apple wants you to buy a new one every year and the average American has 2-3 phones each.

That Amazon order you had? Does each item need it's own re-packaging and each item separately delivered by another driver?

Waste is our largest supply shortage and convenience creates that waste.

Think about how many vehicles are scrapped a year in the US, what do we do with them? We ship them offshore to be melted down rather than recovering the steel, metals, plastics to be reused in our own manufacturing. Even heavy equipment does not go to a foundry here.

We are so spoiled and entitled that we demand clean virgin materials. Sure, some processes require it, most do not. A floor mat is a floor mat, you can grind up old tires to make them but we grind up new rubber instead.

We are creating our own shortages by using more than we can produce.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

Most US manufacturing went overseas when the Corporate tax rate was 35% - which was one of the highest rates in the world. Tax rates are a big factor in addition to labor costs.

Now the rate is 21% which is competitive.

But - it takes time to relocate production PLUS you have to have faith the rate won’t go back up. Do you have faith the rate won’t go back up?

MoKelly

I disagree... US manufacturing went overseas when share holders became greedy, and sacrificed quality, a skilled workforce, and responsibility to America for $$$$$$$$$$.

 

[Hay Dude]

I think the environmentalists will catch on to the carbon footprint of those big ship smokestacks soon.
That type of pollution is relevant to their claims of man made global warming. Once they begin to admit the Chinese are huge manufacturing polluters and their exports requiring long distance shipping leaves an enormous carbon footprint, they will have to admit its cleaner to build here.
In today’s “executive order” and “woke corporation” environmentalist controlled USA, it has to happen, or they are just ignoring the obvious. It’s all about the environment, right?

You can’t clean up the worlds pollution by letting another manufacturer take over production that’s even dirtier than we are (China) then smokestack it across the oceans back to us and not recognize your error in judgement.

We live in a global community now, right? Isn’t that what they say?
If that’s what they say, then polluting here or polluting 8,000 miles from here is still pollution.

 

[MoKelly]

I disagree... US manufacturing went overseas when share holders became greedy, and sacrificed quality, a skilled workforce, and responsibility to America for $$$$$$$$$$.

You need to read Wealth of Nations.

MoKelly

 

[Steppenwolfe]

You need to read Wealth of Nations.

MoKelly

You need to read Robert Reich...

 

[/pine]

One reason so many manufacturers went overseas was because the labor unions forced them to...with extremely high tax rates and excessive labor costs it was either fold up or move abroad...
In a lot of cases the greedy unions and their members demanded themselves right out of their jobs...and it serves them right...!

 

[Steppenwolfe]

One reason so many manufacturers went overseas was because the labor unions forced them to...with extremely high tax rates and excessive labor costs it was either fold up or move abroad...
In a lot of cases the greedy unions and their members demanded themselves right out of their jobs...and it serves them right...!

Without early unions in this country, the US would look like China or India. To blame all unions for forcing manufacturing overseas, that probably was an afterthought second only to stealing profits by the greedy shareholders. Yes, some unions have are bad, even unnecessary, but not to blame for where we are today.

 

[/pine]

It's a free market system... not a socialist network...
People can freely invest in companies they want to..they do it to make money...
...If a company loses its investors it can lose it's ability to exist...
It's the way it works...simple investors do not run the companies, they do not make company policy...they are at the mercy of the bottom line...

If you want to blame shareholders...blame the owners of mutual funds that hold shares of things like BRK that are allowed to hold monopolies that rape consumers...

 

[Pixguy]

It's like blaming Amzn (I'm no fan of Bezos btw) for raping the vendors and the customers, who are free to go elsewhere.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

It's a free market system... not a socialist network...
People can freely invest in companies they want to..they do it to make money...
...If a company loses its investors it can lose it's ability to exist...
It's the way it works...simple investors do not run the companies, they do not make company policy...they are at the mercy of the bottom line...

If you want to blame shareholders...blame the owners of mutual funds that hold shares of things like BRK that are allowed to hold monopolies that rape consumers...

In no way am I disagreeing, but... American companies tend to squeeze their profits out of the pockets of the employees, to the benefit of the shareholders. Look around you right now; have you ever seen so many business's shut down because they don't have enough people? If I'm working like a dog all week, at least pay me enough to buy a juicy bone and a decent doghouse to live in... That's all I'm say'n.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

It's like blaming Amzn (I'm no fan of Bezos btw) for raping the vendors and the customers, who are free to go elsewhere.

Bezos found what worked and what the consumer wants, no skin off his nose. However... it would behoove him to pay better wages and stay off the moon.

 

[bdog]

bdog,
You as a business are extremely fortunate if you can still get your product in a timely manner. My appliance business on the other hand is not so fortunate. We can look on the estimated time of delivery from the manufacturer and give a customer a lead time for their order but it changes weekly sometimes daily, so what we told them is now a lie and it is completely out of my control. We couldn’t buy a freezer for over 8 months and still can’t get most refrigerators and gas dryers! Is that my fault as a retailer? I think not. Get real!! The manufacturing world is a mess right now it will be for the foreseeable future.
Jon

You are correct that when a manufacturer delivers is out of your control as a retailer however I am pretty sure you have a good feel for what the actual delivery time is based off of your experience and conveying the truth to your customers is what I am talking about. I think many retailers are in this position and rather than tell a customer that it might be ten months before something is available they tell customers it will be six weeks and take their money so they can make the sale.

 

[CausticUrbanCoast]

You are correct that when a manufacturer delivers is out of your control as a retailer however I am pretty sure you have a good feel for what the actual delivery time is based off of your experience and conveying the truth to your customers is what I am talking about. I think many retailers are in this position and rather than tell a customer that it might be ten months before something is available they tell customers it will be six weeks and take their money so they can make the sale.

If the employee was paid a decent wage instead of minimum wage + commission you might get more truthful answers.

 

[Pixguy]

In no way am I disagreeing, but... American companies tend to squeeze their profits out of the pockets of the employees, to the benefit of the shareholders. Look around you right now; have you ever seen so many business's shut down because they don't have enough people? If I'm working like a dog all week, at least pay me enough to buy a juicy bone and a decent doghouse to live in... That's all I'm say'n.

We wouldn't have near the shortage of employees if they weren't paid to stay out of the work force. Who or why is better spoken about at another site.

 

[Steppenwolfe]

We wouldn't have near the shortage of employees if they weren't paid to stay out of the work force. Who or why is better spoken about at another site.

I agree 100%. Almost no one should be paid to sit at home; take away one's needs and there go one's desires...

 

[Redlands Okie]

Amazon is part of the problem and if you do your research you will find that you are paying shipping in the form of higher prices. If you take the time to compare you will find the same item lower from other places. It’s the age of instant gratification that makes Amazon succeed. I am willing to shop local to support small businesses because when they are gone you will be at the mercy of companies like Amazon

I feel exactly the same way. But I have a couple of problems. I am in the construction business. I try really hard to shop a select number of local stores that make customer service a priority. If they do not have it then the rest of the local stores seldom carry what I need, they usually have something similar for a similar price at best. I hate paying for something that is not what I wanted. A couple dollars more on a $40 dollar item is annoying but I am at the point I no longer care, so I order online a LOT. In my trade little things add up to annoyance every single time I use the tool or try to install the product. It’s all from china so I might as well order and get exactly what I or the customer wants. A side bonus is way less hassle dealing with salespeople who do not know their products or often times even care to make the effort. Open the iPad, hit search, select the item and its on the way. Done deal and back to work, instead of time and money wasted driving searching local.