Power Line to my house was broken

[BigBlue1]

That is what a good trouble shooter is required to do.

Still not common these days.

 

[ponytug]

Still not common these days.

I agree. I have never found "common" sense to be widespread either.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ponytug]

So, show of hands here; how many of those reading have three phase delta power from the grid?

We do; just for the main well pump. I suspect, but don't know that it was chosen because of the higher voltage for the long run to the pump and then down the bore.

And you all remember that two of the three phase 240V power legs are each 120V to ground, but the third leg is 208-218V to ground, right? And you haven't forgetten that the order of the three phases sets motor rotation, right?

I had, or at least I wasn't thinking about it.

Any how, this is relevant because when the transformers blew due to lightning or the ungrounded neutral issue, it took out both transformers. So, the team from the power company replacing the transformers weren't entirely sure that they got the three phase legs set correctly and were kind enough to tag out the panel with a reminder that motors, i.e. our well pump, might not function correctly. They even came to the door to remind us.

In all of the brouhaha of getting standby power rigged, (we are in the midst of rewiring for batteries) and helping the power crew get to the power pole, I had forgotten the details of three phase, and I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought for months.

Not being confident in my own abilities, I had an electrician come out to double check the wiring and phases, but when he got here and started in on the project, it turned out that he had only ever worked on commercial three phase 208/120 "Wye", and was lost on delta. So, it turned into a joint effort, with me teaching him the little I knew about three phase delta, and him helping me not do anything stupid. We had fun trying to wire trace the circuits, (for added fun, we found a hidden junction box, unknown to me with the added bonus of wire color changes) and managed to figure which were supposed to be the two low voltage legs by what was hooked up to them, and then double check nothing was attached to the high, aka "wild" leg. Only took twenty minutes or so. Then we we're in position to briefly power up the pump to see if it pumped or sucked.

It pumped!

The power company team had gotten the phases right, and we did not need to switch the two "low" voltage phases to correct the rotation.

It was great to have water flowing back in the storage tanks, and to have had enough water in the tanks to make it through the several day outage without issues. (While we do have a backup well, but with the power issues, that was out of service on top of everything else. Murphy's law rules.)

All the best,

Peter

 

[grsthegreat]

Wild legs kick the butt of alot of electricians. Had one guy fry a bunch of 120 v instahots on a commercial job because he hooked them to the B phase 208. Had another seasoned journeyman fry a underground gas turbine fuel pump for same reason.

i used to own a phase rotation meter back in the day, but gave it to an apprentice i was working with when i got out of commercial work. Spinning a deep water pump backwards was not something i wanted to do. Especially on a large water system. Didnt matter much on a drill press, but could harm pumps.

 

[k0ua]

All I can say is with my co-op power company here, I have never seen them take more than a couple of hours to come out and fix any downed line, blown fuse or exploded transformer. The only exceptions is when the outages are widespread like during an ice storm. And of course they are out working as fast as they can to get everyone up and running starting with the repairs that will get the most customers back up the quickest. When you call these guys, they just come and they do their best.

Most outages I have called on have them showing up in an hour to effect the repair. In fact with their remote outage systems, they know about the outage before you call. They also offer to call after the repair to make sure you know the repair has been effected and to make sure it solved your problem. I can't complain at all about the way our power company handles outages. In fact I am praising them. To think that a line would be down for months without action is just crazy to me. I guess I am fortunate to have such a responsive utility.

 

[ponytug]

@grsthegreat My problem is/was even with a phase rotation meter, I don't know what pump is at the bottom of the well, nor the rotation. (And wouldn't the meter be dependent on the user, e.g. me, hooking the leads up 1,2,3?)

@k0ua no complaints on the crew here. They did mention that they are down to 13 linemen, from a normal of 22, soon to be nine, when four guys retire this year.

All the best,

Peter

 

[coobie]

Still not common these days.

Being a retired electric lineman/trouble shooter it is in this neck of the woods its VERY common..

 

[coobie]

So, show of hands here; how many of those reading have three phase delta power from the grid?

We do; just for the main well pump. I suspect, but don't know that it was chosen because of the higher voltage for the long run to the pump and then down the bore.

And you all remember that two of the three phase 240V power legs are each 120V to ground, but the third leg is 208-218V to ground, right? And you haven't forgetten that the order of the three phases sets motor rotation, right?

I had, or at least I wasn't thinking about it.

Any how, this is relevant because when the transformers blew due to lightning or the ungrounded neutral issue, it took out both transformers. So, the team from the power company replacing the transformers weren't entirely sure that they got the three phase legs set correctly and were kind enough to tag out the panel with a reminder that motors, i.e. our well pump, might not function correctly. They even came to the door to remind us.

In all of the brouhaha of getting standby power rigged, (we are in the midst of rewiring for batteries) and helping the power crew get to the power pole, I had forgotten the details of three phase, and I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought for months.

Not being confident in my own abilities, I had an electrician come out to double check the wiring and phases, but when he got here and started in on the project, it turned out that he had only ever worked on commercial three phase 208/120 "Wye", and was lost on delta. So, it turned into a joint effort, with me teaching him the little I knew about three phase delta, and him helping me not do anything stupid. We had fun trying to wire trace the circuits, (for added fun, we found a hidden junction box, unknown to me with the added bonus of wire color changes) and managed to figure which were supposed to be the two low voltage legs by what was hooked up to them, and then double check nothing was attached to the high, aka "wild" leg. Only took twenty minutes or so. Then we we're in position to briefly power up the pump to see if it pumped or sucked.

It pumped!

The power company team had gotten the phases right, and we did not need to switch the two "low" voltage phases to correct the rotation.

It was great to have water flowing back in the storage tanks, and to have had enough water in the tanks to make it through the several day outage without issues. (While we do have a backup well, but with the power issues, that was out of service on top of everything else. Murphy's law rules.)

All the best,

Peter

That wild leg could also be 277-480 volts also.Another reason why rotation should be written down in the meter socket.RED,WHITE.BLUE left to right ORANGE is the wild leg in the meter socket.

 

[ponytug]

That wild leg could also be 277-480 volts also.Another reason why rotation should be written down in the meter socket.RED,WHITE.BLUE left to right ORANGE is the wild leg in the meter socket.

Red, White, Blue, in order was the case for me, at the meter. I did know in advance that this was 240V Delta.

I am now troubled by the thought that while the pump developed the right pressure, the phase might still be wrong, and the flow might have been compromised by the impeller stack turning the wrong way. Time to go check the actual flow at the tank.

Thanks for all the tips.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ning]

And you all remember that two of the three phase 240V power legs are each 120V to ground, but the third leg is 208-218V to ground, right? And you haven't forgetten that the order of the three phases sets motor rotation, right?

Pretty sure all three are 120V. 120*sqrt(3) = 208 is where that "208" comes from.