Power Line to my house was broken

[grsthegreat]

@grsthegreat My problem is/was even with a phase rotation meter, I don't know what pump is at the bottom of the well, nor the rotation. (And wouldn't the meter be dependent on the user, e.g. me, hooking the leads up 1,2,3?)

@k0ua no complaints on the crew here. They did mention that they are down to 13 linemen, from a normal of 22, soon to be nine, when four guys retire this year.

All the best,

Peter

the wells i worked on had all that info up by the controller, including amperage draws under load. cause your right, if you cant rotate pump your hosed.

 

[ponytug]

Pretty sure all three are 120V. 120*sqrt(3) = 208 is where that "208" comes from.

This is the bit that is quite different about three phase delta. Two legs are 120 to ground and the third is sqrt(3)120 to ground, I.e. not 120V. Easy way to get into trouble. (I did once.)

On three phase Wye, yes, each phase is 120 to ground, which is why you see it a lot in offices, as it is an easy way to run a bunch of 120 circuits.

All the best,

Peter

 

[ponytug]

the wells i worked on had all that info up by the controller, including amperage draws under load. cause your right, if you cant rotate pump your hosed.

Boy, do I wish that was true here.

All the best,

Peter

 

[PILOON]

Piloon-that is just plan ridiculous on the power companies side. What if someone got hurt?
At my first house a wire came down, phone company came out as the phone was dead. I was traveling.

Phone guy called me, the power line had fallen and taken the phone line with it.

Both had hit my car, but the ends were sticking out and not touching the car.
The power company came out the next day (most of the reports came from my neighbor).

But they were quick. Happy with PECO in my current house, they respond very quickly.

I wonder if you had told them someone could get hurt and your lawyers would hold them responsible if that would work in your neck of the woods. Though I think the US is more apt to lawyer up in these situations?

We are at the end of the line.
When we arrived here in the '70's we had no road nor hydro or phone but back then the Gov't nationalized hydro and we all had it installed. In order to do so at the time they used muskegs and boats and ran the power at the rear of our properties, thru the woods.
Later we made our own road* and since it was all gov't land we went where we could so that in most cases we were far from the hydro line.
Back then there were no phone lines so hydro used their shortest poles that met specs.
Later added phone lines resulted in that non standard overhead clearance since phone co was not about to do a whole set of poles.
And, yes, lots of power outages due to trees that insist on growing, and falling. Add to that we are the highest elevation for miles around so very wind damage prone.
LOL, my generator gets 'exercised' on a regular basis.
Every lineman recommends moving the power back to the road but I'm not holding my breath.

* I was in charge of that project back then and today it is fully 'verbalized' and city maintained.
As a result those cabin days have morphed to choice retirement lakeside homes being 1 hour north of Montreal and conveniently close to all activities and conveniences.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

So, show of hands here; how many of those reading have three phase delta power from the grid?

We do; just for the main well pump. I suspect, but don't know that it was chosen because of the higher voltage for the long run to the pump and then down the bore.

And you all remember that two of the three phase 240V power legs are each 120V to ground, but the third leg is 208-218V to ground, right? And you haven't forgetten that the order of the three phases sets motor rotation, right?

I had, or at least I wasn't thinking about it.

Any how, this is relevant because when the transformers blew due to lightning or the ungrounded neutral issue, it took out both transformers. So, the team from the power company replacing the transformers weren't entirely sure that they got the three phase legs set correctly and were kind enough to tag out the panel with a reminder that motors, i.e. our well pump, might not function correctly. They even came to the door to remind us.

In all of the brouhaha of getting standby power rigged, (we are in the midst of rewiring for batteries) and helping the power crew get to the power pole, I had forgotten the details of three phase, and I probably wouldn't have given it a second thought for months.

Not being confident in my own abilities, I had an electrician come out to double check the wiring and phases, but when he got here and started in on the project, it turned out that he had only ever worked on commercial three phase 208/120 "Wye", and was lost on delta. So, it turned into a joint effort, with me teaching him the little I knew about three phase delta, and him helping me not do anything stupid. We had fun trying to wire trace the circuits, (for added fun, we found a hidden junction box, unknown to me with the added bonus of wire color changes) and managed to figure which were supposed to be the two low voltage legs by what was hooked up to them, and then double check nothing was attached to the high, aka "wild" leg. Only took twenty minutes or so. Then we we're in position to briefly power up the pump to see if it pumped or sucked.

It pumped!

The power company team had gotten the phases right, and we did not need to switch the two "low" voltage phases to correct the rotation.

It was great to have water flowing back in the storage tanks, and to have had enough water in the tanks to make it through the several day outage without issues. (While we do have a backup well, but with the power issues, that was out of service on top of everything else. Murphy's law rules.)

All the best,

Peter

I'm always amazed at how many people who are supposed to be professionals get fouled up by 3 phase and rotation, as stated earlier the rotation meter leads are Red, White & Blue or if you pull the rubber back they will be stamped A,B & C , because some places mark Black Red Blue and 277/480 is Brown Orange & Yellow, so there are many different ways to mark rotation depending on where your at and who you are working for. I was working a hurricane a few years ago in South Carolina and we had an Open Delta 3 phase bank pole broke with the pots on the dirt and service tore loose so we didn't know the rotation, so when I hooked everything back up on the pole the other lineman said we will have to leave this one off, I laughed and said I think we can figure it out as I had already looked and saw that the homeowner had a 3 phase AC unit , he said how? I said doesn't an AC unit blow he said yeah, I said so if the outside unit is sucking and not blowing we need to swap the legs on the lighting pot, he said okay what if there is any other 3 phase? I laughed again and said if we got the AC right the rest of the 3 phase if any can't help but be right. Anytime you can check rotation where you are not making a change that's the place to check it, as Coobie said in an earlier post that's why the power company usually makes their check in the meter can because it the one place that they won't be making a change.

 

[YanmarFever]

Some crazy person just knocked over the power pole to our warehouse with a semi and took off down the road.
As luck would have it the tenant has security cameras and caught the whole thing for us and the police.
There was PCB oil leaked all over the front lawn, this was a 220 3 ph pole by the way. The power company has to dig all around the spill and haul off the contaminated material
before they can install a new pole. It completely ripped our 3 ph electrical box off the wall, wires everywhere.
He will be in for a surprise when he gets the phone call or the police at his door.

 

[EddieWalker]

On Friday, Sep 17, the power line to my house was fixed!!!! I complained to the Public Utility Commission on Aug 30, so just over 2 weeks to fix it after the complaint. I don't know for sure if that is why they came out, or if it's just a coincidence, but I'm sort of thinking that the complaint had something to do with them getting it done.

 

[grsthegreat]

Up here nothing gets done by just bitching…but the PUC can leverage huge fines, so they listen.

that one job I mentioned with ziply fiber not willing to remove their dead pole and lines…..homeowner and contractor complained to them for 6 months. But 5 days after call to PUC everything got pulled.

 

[MossRoad]

Almost 5 months. Man.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

That is insane. I don’t think that would be possible here. I hope not anyway.