Tractor Sizing TRACTOR WEIGHT as ONE (1) CRITERION in TRACTOR SELECTION

[Egon]

Depending how the forces are directed with a three point hitch and a full bucket there can be distinct traction gain.

 

[jeff9366]

Depending how the forces are directed with a three point hitch and a full bucket there can be distinct traction gain.

In the interest of tractor safety, please expand on this assertion.

 

[Williy]

If you test drive this tractor it just might
be the one for you.

willy

 

[RickB]

Depending how the forces are directed with a three point hitch and a full bucket there can be distinct traction gain.

Now you are going to get the resident army of theorists riled up. Not worth it. Some of us get it, some never will.

 

[ElSueno Farms]

I have read most of Jeff’s educational posts and found them to offer sage advice. You have to do the work and have or acquire some level of knowledge if you expect to make a sound decision on the best tractor and attachments to achieve your goals.

 

[Egon]

In the interest of tractor safety, please expand on this assertion.

No assertion. Just plain reality. All that is required is a down force on the three point whatever it’s position.

 

[Egon]

Now you are going to get the resident army of theorists riled up. Not worth it. Some of us get it, some never will.

It’s surprising how much a 16 hp tractor with hydro can pull with a weighted bucket and downward force on the three point.

 

[MossRoad]

And don't forget that most of these tractors now have power at all 4 wheels. You take a little tractor, add a bunch of weight to the rear, and the front wheels are useless for steering and traction. Put an FEL on it or front weights, it brings the fronts back on the ground where they can engage the dirt, add to the pulling power, and allow you to steer without having to use the rear turning brakes.

I had an IH2500b for over a decade. 8000#+ tractor loader. Rear wheel drive only. It was not a good machine for traction in our sandy soil.

I had a forester come out to plant the sand dunes with trees. He had a small Ford tractor with front wheel assist and weights on the front. He had zero problems navigating the sand while pulling his tree planter.

There's a balance between bare weight, additional weight, weight distribution, traction, flotation, soil conditions, etc.

Too much emphasis on bare weight, in my opinion.

 

[jeff9366]

The Three Point Hitch tractor has been marketed in the USA since 1939. Patents on the Three Point Hitch and TPH hydraulic controls expired in 1955. Since 1955 (66 years) all traditional compact tractors have been designed and produced around the Ferguson Three Point Hitch, worldwide.

The traditional Three Point Hitch tractor design is generic.

 

[jyoutz]

Let's try this to see if we can draw out some substance.

Weight beats HP in most situations. It definitely adds to stability, especially weight plus wider width. Weight provides traction and allows the tractor to pull dirt and gravel moving blades without tire spinning and sliding. Usually I run out of traction before HP.

 

[Egon]

Stability is about centre of gravity, not weight.

 

[IndyJay]

Stability is about centre of gravity, not weight.

What is gravity? What are you measuring when determining center of gravity?
It is distribution of weight, which is another criterion for tractor selection.

​

 

[LouNY]

The Three Point Hitch tractor has been marketed in the USA since 1939. Patents on the Three Point Hitch and TPH hydraulic controls expired in 1955. Since 1955 (66 years) all traditional compact tractors have been designed and produced around the Ferguson Three Point Hitch, worldwide.

The traditional tractor design is generic.

I have no clue were you are getting your information from, or what you are defining as "traditional compact tractors",
but thru the many different manufacture had many of there own hitch systems right through the early 70's.
Case with the Eagle hitch, Allis Chalmers with the snap coupler, and then the biggy which was far better then a 3 point could ever presume to be the the Farmall/IH fast hitch.

 

[rScotty]

It’s surprising how much a 16 hp tractor with hydro can pull with a weighted bucket and downward force on the three point.

I see that you have mentioned down force on the 3pt hitch several times now. I'm assuming that you are talking about the weight of whatever implement is on the hitch rather than a downward force from the hitch itself.

As far as I know, there aren't any 3pt hitches made today that provide power down force. All the ones I've seen on compact tractors are power lift, but simply gravity down.

Several manufacturers years ago offered power down on their 3pt hitches, but it turned out that pushing down on the implement raised the rear tires....so it wasn't popular.

 

[Egon]

I see that you have mentioned down force on the 3pt hitch several times now. I'm assuming that you are talking about the weight of whatever implement is on the hitch rather than a downward force from the hitch itself.

As far as I know, there aren't any 3pt hitches made today that provide power down force. All the ones I've seen on compact tractors are power lift, but simply gravity down.

Several manufacturers years ago offered power down on their 3pt hitches, but it turned out that pushing down on the implement raised the rear tires....so it wasn't popular.

I’m talking about downward force from the load on the three point. With the loaded bucket and proper caution ( very slow speed, foot on clutch or hydro pedal, hand on three point control lever and very observant of the front wheels ) you can come up with a lot traction.

 

[rScotty]

I’m talking about downward force from the load on the three point. With the loaded bucket and proper caution ( very slow speed, foot on clutch or hydro pedal, hand on three point control lever and very observant of the front wheels ) you can come up with a lot traction.

Why not just use rear wheel weights? Takes up less space, has similar down force on the rear tires, and doesn't tend to lighten the front end.

 

[jeff9366]

I have no clue were you are getting your information from, or what you are defining as "traditional compact tractors",
but thru the many different manufacture had many of there own hitch systems right through the early 70's.
Case with the Eagle hitch, Allis Chalmers with the snap coupler, and then the biggy which was far better then a 3 point could ever presume to be the the Farmall/IH fast hitch.

And who makes these wonderful tractors and wonderful attachment systems today?

Ferguson Three Point Hitch equipped tractors have 100% of the compact tractor market worldwide.

 

[LouNY]

The Three Point Hitch tractor has been marketed in the USA since 1939. Patents on the Three Point Hitch and TPH hydraulic controls expired in 1955. Since 1955 (66 years) all traditional compact tractors have been designed and produced around the Ferguson Three Point Hitch, worldwide.

The traditional tractor design is generic.

The bolded and underlined is what I questioned and is incorrect.

 

[IndyJay]

The bolded and underlined is what I questioned and is incorrect.

Can you expand on that? Give some examples of "traditional compact tractors" that were not 3pt hitch? Just a few out of what must be dozens of very common examples. I am curious to learn more.

 

[LouNY]

The Three Point Hitch tractor has been marketed in the USA since 1939. Patents on the Three Point Hitch and TPH hydraulic controls expired in 1955. Since 1955 (66 years) all traditional compact tractors have been designed and produced around the Ferguson Three Point Hitch, worldwide.

The traditional tractor design is generic.

I have no clue were you are getting your information from, or what you are defining as "traditional compact tractors",
but thru the many different manufacture had many of there own hitch systems right through the early 70's.
Case with the Eagle hitch, Allis Chalmers with the snap coupler, and then the biggy which was far better then a 3 point could ever presume to be the the Farmall/IH fast hitch.

Can you expand on that? Give some examples of "traditional compact tractors" that were not 3pt hitch? Just a few out of what must be dozens of very common examples. I am curious to learn more.

As I said before;
what are you defining as "traditional compact tractors",
The many different manufacture had many of there own hitch systems right through the early 70's.
Case with the Eagle hitch, Allis Chalmers with the snap coupler, and then the biggy which was far better then a 3 point could ever presume to be the the Farmall/IH fast hitch.
So of the many compact/ utility/ small tractors from 1955 thru the 1970's many did not have a 3 point system.
Unfortunately all the manufactures made them proprietary so no other manufacture used them.
As I said if IH/Farmall had allowed the open use of the Fast Hitch system I don't believe there would be any 3 point equipment to speak of around today. Any one that has used both systems would quite likely tell you the same.