Will 10 Horsepower actually matter on the same size tractor?

[johnsayen]

I thought I wanted a 40 horse and ended up with a 60 horse L6060 because I wanted a front mid PTO driven blower and also the bigger loader lift capacity. The extra cash hurt a lot and I smile every time I start the tractor. I did also drive myself wild trying to decide between the “utility” blower and the “commercial” blower. I ended up with the utility since it was rated for 20-60hp and the commercial was rated for 30-80. I figured it would be better to be at the top of the HP rating for the blower rather than the middle. Though I don’t think kubota makes a tractor larger than 60hp with a mid PTO so I don’t know. The PTO rating is approx 50hp.

 

[rScotty]

SNIP.... I personally believe that there is nothing harder to shop for then a tractor. I think buying a piece of heavy equipment like a CAT bulldozer would be easier then this.

When my wife and I were shopping for our last TLB =TractorLoaderBackhoe we looked at everything on the market including commercial JD and CATs (the yellow ones). Not that we could afford one, we just wanted to look. They started around $140K at the time.

So there we were sitting in the cab of a new CAT....me in the operator seat and her on the fold-down "instructor's seat"....and she is looking around in amazement and blurts out, "This cab is nicer than our old living room!".

And she had a point. It also cost a bit more. No, we didn't buy that one...
rScotty

 

[rScotty]

I've never run ags and turfs on similar machines to directly compare. The machine with turfs in the snow had chains, which worked well. Never ran it without the chains. In general turfs stink for anything except not tearing up a lawn.

I did. On the same exact tractor. A 33 hp. For 90% of the work the different tires made no difference in traction. The turfs were a much better ride & more stable on hills. Turfs do suck in deep snow, but we always kept chains on during the winter on any & all light utility tractors regardless of tire type.

We found that turfs plus chain have more traction than bare Ags, but not more than Ags plus chains.
rScotty

 

[LD1]

I've never run ags and turfs on similar machines to directly compare. The machine with turfs in the snow had chains, which worked well. Never ran it without the chains. In general turfs stink for anything except not getting traction

Fixed it for you

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

So there we were sitting in the cab of a new CAT....me in the operator seat and her on the fold-down "instructor's seat"....and she is looking around in amazement and blurts out, "This cab is nicer than our old living room!".

And she had a point. It also cost a bit more. No, we didn't buy that one...

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

I did. On the same exact tractor. A 33 hp. For 90% of the work the different tires made no difference in traction. The turfs were a much better ride & more stable on hills. Turfs do suck in deep snow, but we always kept chains on during the winter on any & all light utility tractors regardless of tire type.

We found that turfs plus chain have more traction than bare Ags, but not more than Ags plus chains.
rScotty

I have really been considering the turfs but I am concerned that they could get easily punctured if I were to run over something sharp like a bush stump or something. What's your experience with that?

 

[mo1]

I have really been considering the turfs but I am concerned that they could get easily punctured if I were to run over something sharp like a bush stump or something. What's your experience with that?

Turfs are not very sturdy tires.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I wouldn't take a set of turfs, IF they paid me! lol

SR

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Turfs are not very sturdy tires.

Please elaborate.

 

[DonaldP]

Hi all, I wont lie, I am totally new to the tractor world. Very familiar with cars and trucks, not so much on tractors. But, I have been reading articles, posts, and watching videos like crazy for the past 2 months learning what I can as we shop tractors.

Lets take the Kioti NX4510 and NX5510 for example. Both HST. Same basic tractor, 10 more HP. Otherwise between the 2, its larger (wider) tires, and a better 3 pt hitch, thats it I think.

So does 10 Hp matter, say your using a decent sized PTO Snowblower in what the town plows leave behind after a 12" snow fall, is that 10 Hp noticeable?

What about if your just pushing snow around with a pusher box, will the extra HP and TQ help?

Is there other benefits of more HP other than running the PTO?

Have you ever in your 35 or 40 Hp tractor, wished you had 45 or 50 Hp?

Curious to hear everyone's opinions, thank you!

There are a ton of folks here with the same comments, mostly that reflect “going bigger” on HP is usually the the wisest choice.

I was in your exact position 2 years ago. A newbie with NO tractor experience and questioning HP and Frame size.

My main goal was to NOT be unhappy with either my frame or HP choice 2 or fewer years down the road after some experience in the seat.

I knew I wanted to finish mow… which was basically placing a top end on frame size. So I maxed that out. I have found in 1.5 years that I’m on the heavy end of that limit and do some minimal damage every time I finish mow with a 72” finish mower on the 3 point.

Having said that… that single issue is the only negative for hitting the largest frame size I could possibly go and still be able to finish mow due to tractor weight and width. (Although there is still a negative in locking me out of smaller lots that I just can’t justify using the tractor on -but again for my properties it’s working.

Next, onto HP.

My initial choice was aKubota L2501… that’s what I knew I could safely finish mow just about anything with and still have something left to do satisfying work with a small backhoe, FEL, and a few implements. I didn’t see much in the way of ground based implements (bottom plows) in my future so I opted for lighter (smaller frame size) and sans emissions (25 or below).

Having been told that I should always go a frame size higher, after the L2501 I moved up a full frame size to the Kubota MX4800 open station. A massive move/change and added limitation for finish mowing, probably too big, but I didn’t want to short myself on other more weight based activities like the size of the FEL and Backhoe. So I opted to upsize at the cost of smaller lot size issues for the finish mower. The HP of approximately 50 compared to 25 for the smaller frame size had no impact on my choice. It was just the frame size alone that kicked me up into the higher HP (doubled).

The day I signed the paperwork I decided to sit in a grand L3560. I liked it. I liked the comfort, I liked the roominess, and I liked that it was about the same frame size as the MX4800 but with a cab, and a ton of features that would required much less of a training curve to get comfortable with the equipment.

So now I was basically up to the extreme max of finish mowing on the frame size of the Kubota L3560, and although I did have a 40 and a 60 HP option… I opted for the 35 HP for a number of reasons:

I wasn’t looking at major ground contact work.
PTO requirements were only finish mowing and possibly tilling/brush hog work. So I could give up a bit of HP to keep from growing the frame size a small amount yet again to step into a 40 or 60HP L4060 or L6060 (which would have definitely pushed me out of the finish mowing arena as far as frame size!)

Since mostly the backhoe and FEL work and finish mowing was my gig, I stuck with the L3560.

Today… if I had the choice again, I would have taken the L4060 just to have some HP overhead available as an “in case” option.

But that model wasn’t available with cab in a “limited edition” that saved me about $2500 over the regular version of the same tractor…. So I made the best possible choice for me, at the time, and with the biggest possible frame size that would fit my needs.

The HP didn’t take as much of the decision process over the other factors based on my expectations of future use (minimal ground contact and extended FEL and backhoe use). I did get the largest BH and FEL available for the model of choice, and I’m completely happy with the experience of the equip going on 1.5 years and almost 450 hours.
Good luck!!

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

There are a ton of folks here with the same comments, mostly that reflect “going bigger” on HP is usually the the wisest choice.

I was in your exact position 2 years ago. A newbie with NO tractor experience and questioning HP and Frame size.

My main goal was to NOT be unhappy with either my frame or HP choice 2 or fewer years down the road after some experience in the seat.

I knew I wanted to finish mow… which was basically placing a top end on frame size. So I maxed that out. I have found in 1.5 years that I’m on the heavy end of that limit and do some minimal damage every time I finish mow with a 72” finish mower on the 3 point.

Having said that… that single issue is the only negative for hitting the largest frame size I could possibly go and still be able to finish mow due to tractor weight and width. (Although there is still a negative in locking me out of smaller lots that I just can’t justify using the tractor on -but again for my properties it’s working.

Next, onto HP.

My initial choice was aKubota L2501… that’s what I knew I could safely finish mow just about anything with and still have something left to do satisfying work with a small backhoe, FEL, and a few implements. I didn’t see much in the way of ground based implements (bottom plows) in my future so I opted for lighter (smaller frame size) and sans emissions (25 or below).

Having been told that I should always go a frame size higher, after the L2501 I moved up a full frame size to the Kubota MX4800 open station. A massive move/change and added limitation for finish mowing, probably too big, but I didn’t want to short myself on other more weight based activities like the size of the FEL and Backhoe. So I opted to upsize at the cost of smaller lot size issues for the finish mower. The HP of approximately 50 compared to 25 for the smaller frame size had no impact on my choice. It was just the frame size alone that kicked me up into the higher HP (doubled).

The day I signed the paperwork I decided to sit in a grand L3560. I liked it. I liked the comfort, I liked the roominess, and I liked that it was about the same frame size as the MX4800 but with a cab, and a ton of features that would required much less of a training curve to get comfortable with the equipment.

So now I was basically up to the extreme max of finish mowing on the frame size of the Kubota L3560, and although I did have a 40 and a 60 HP option… I opted for the 35 HP for a number of reasons:

I wasn’t looking at major ground contact work.
PTO requirements were only finish mowing and possibly tilling/brush hog work. So I could give up a bit of HP to keep from growing the frame size a small amount yet again to step into a 40 or 60HP L4060 or L6060 (which would have definitely pushed me out of the finish mowing arena as far as frame size!)

Since mostly the backhoe and FEL work and finish mowing was my gig, I stuck with the L3560.

Today… if I had the choice again, I would have taken the L4060 just to have some HP overhead available as an “in case” option.

But that model wasn’t available with cab in a “limited edition” that saved me about $2500 over the regular version of the same tractor…. So I made the best possible choice for me, at the time, and with the biggest possible frame size that would fit my needs.

The HP didn’t take as much of the decision process over the other factors based on my expectations of future use (minimal ground contact and extended FEL and backhoe use). I did get the largest BH and FEL available for the model of choice, and I’m completely happy with the experience of the equip going on 1.5 years and almost 450 hours.
Good luck!!

The problem I have found in the Kubota world is they don't offer a premium grade tractor in the medium frame size. Their medium frame size tractors are a crudely built bucket of bolts.

 

[DonaldP]

That’s an interesting take. I haven’t looked larger than the mx series… so I don’t know the specifics of those units.
As far as the fit with the Grand L3560, I’m happy.

But the finish of the Kubota does seem to lack durability in my personal experience over the last year and a haif.
However not having owned any other brands I can’t be sure that it’s indicative of only Kubota, other manufactures, or of ALL manufacturers.

So I can’t comment with experience as you are likely able to with your general experience. How many brands have you owned?

And, if I could ask, what specific models would you be referring to? I ask because I’m wondering if larger tractors (from Kubota's viewpoint anyway), may be a smaller percentage of their sales mix, and therefore may not get the attention to detail that the smaller premium tractors get?

Great input by the way!

 

[mo1]

Please elaborate.

They have thinner construction biased toward minimizing ground compaction than thicker construction to resist field hazards. A turf tire for the same tractor is going to generally be a lot lighter than an industrial or ag tire. They are far less resistant to punctures from rocks, thorns, etc. than the other tire types. I have had much more for issues with turfs in mowing lawns that border treelines, fencelines, woods, etc. than other tires actually going into wooded/brushy areas.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

That’s an interesting take. I haven’t looked larger than the mx series… so I don’t know the specifics of those units.
As far as the fit with the Grand L3560, I’m happy.

But the finish of the Kubota does seem to lack durability in my personal experience over the last year and a haif.
However not having owned any other brands I can’t be sure that it’s indicative of only Kubota, other manufactures, or of ALL manufacturers.

So I can’t comment with experience as you are likely able to with your general experience. How many brands have you owned?

And, if I could ask, what specific models would you be referring to? I ask because I’m wondering if larger tractors (from Kubota's viewpoint anyway), may be a smaller percentage of their sales mix, and therefore may not get the attention to detail that the smaller premium tractors get?

Great input by the way!

But the finish of the Kubota does seem to lack durability in my personal experience over the last year and a haif.

Could you explain what you mean?

So I can’t comment with experience as you are likely able to with your general experience. How many brands have you owned?

We have owned a Long 360 and a Ford 3000. Some of the best tractors there ever was.

And, if I could ask, what specific models would you be referring to?

I was referring to their standard L series tractor like the 3901. That tractor is a bucket of bolts compared to a Deere 3R series.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

They have thinner construction biased toward minimizing ground compaction than thicker construction to resist field hazards. A turf tire for the same tractor is going to generally be a lot lighter than an industrial or ag tire. They are far less resistant to punctures from rocks, thorns, etc. than the other tire types. I have had much more for issues with turfs in mowing lawns that border treelines, fencelines, woods, etc. than other tires actually going into wooded/brushy areas.

What do you think is the best all around, R4's?

 

[LD1]

I was referring to their standard L series tractor like the 3901. That tractor is a bucket of bolts compared to a Deere 3R series.

Apples to oranges comparison.

The standard L's were an economy tractor with budget minded folks in mind. No extra fancy stuff. The 3R is a premium feature-rich machine.

Compare the standard L with the 3E series. The 3R series is more akin to the GrandL line

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

Compare the standard L with the 3E series. The 3R series is more akin to the GrandL line

It is more akin to the Grand L in terms of features but not in size. The 3E compares to the Standard L in terms of size but not weight.

 

[DonaldP]

Could you explain what you mean?


We have owned a Long 360 and a Ford 3000. Some of the best tractors there ever was.


I was referring to their standard L series tractor like the 3901. That tractor is a bucket of bolts compared to a Deere 3R series.

“But the finish of the Kubota does seem to lack durability in my personal experience over the last year and a half.”


Yes…

There are details to the side cab mounted lights. The brackets are built so they can’t be painted on the inside, hence the material will rust and then continue on around the base.

The darker gray paint on the interior is thin. It’s sprayed over a white’ish primer. The paint is all grey on the interior. That material is easy to scratch and exposes the basecoat white primer. It looks very sloppy, very quickly. Even with extended care, you can’t reasonably maintain it.

The cab support posts internal and external are all painted in this way. In fact I believe all the external surfaces are painted this way. As long as the primer or undercoat is protective of oxidation without its gray surface coating, then it’s just an aesthetic issue. I cant ascertain whether or not the undercoating is a protective layer or just to maintain adhesion of the gray paint (which of course, it doesn’t do properly).

in general, most all Kubota's exhibit orange paint fade. Yes, it may simply be that the pigment in the orange just can’t take the sun. Or it may be indicative of the type of paint and it’s quality. (Durability)

I made it a point to apply a nano ceramic coating within 2 weeks of purchase to all Ppoint’s of the tractor exposed to sunlight in order to add additional UV protection to the paint, and minimize this typical behavior from the onset.
The jury is still out in this.

Add to that in my particular situation, the hood (Bonnet) which was to be replaced by the dealer was painted instead of being replaced…. So now it sports a real nice dull orange peel finish that I see everyday over the clean glossy glass surface of a factory hood.

Of course the dealer says the bonnet was never painted, and the overspray on the various parts of the under hood materials were over sprayed by me for some reason.
But I digress!!

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

in general, most all Kubota's exhibit orange paint fade. Yes, it may simply be that the pigment in the orange just can’t take the sun. Or it may be indicative of the type of paint and it’s quality. (Durability)

That's a good detail to point out. I had actually forgotten that. There have been many people that have talked about it over the years and I don't understand why Kubota hasn't done anything to improve or correct it.

You mentioned the word Bonnet, where are you from if you don't mind me asking?

Of course the dealer says the bonnet was never painted, and the overspray on the various parts of the under hood materials were over sprayed by me for some reason.
But I digress!!

Sounds like a bad dealer.

 

[mo1]

What do you think is the best all around, R4's?

R1s unless the tractor operates largely on pavement, then R4s.