Will 10 Horsepower actually matter on the same size tractor?

[LD1]

It is more akin to the Grand L in terms of features but not in size. The 3E compares to the Standard L in terms of size but not weight.

Not sure what you are trying to say.

The 3038E is an economy tractor with a 62.7" wheelbase and weighs 2668 pounds and a 3ph lift capacity of 1356 pounds @24"
The L3901 is an economy tractor with a 63.3" wheelbase and weighs 2778 pounds and a 3PH lift capacity of 1433 pounds @24"

I'd say they compare quite nicely. The 3039R is 68" wheel base, weighs 3047 pounds, and rear lift of 2194 pounds @ 24". I stand by my statement that its an apples to oranges comparison to compare a deluxe and larger tractor to the economy and smaller kubota. Especially when deere offers nearly an identical ECONOMY tractor in terms of specs to the 3901

The 3039R is bigger, but not quite as big as the GrandL.

Deeres own website chooses to compare the 3038E to the L3901 in their competitive comparison and they pick the grandL models to compare their 3R series to.

 

[Bullwinkle123]

Once again, thanks to all for all the great insight here!

In reply to some of the posts and to clarify the differences between these 2 models

The NX5510 has over the NX4510, 10 more HP, Wider rear tires (R4's are 14.9-24 vs. 17.5-24), Cat 1 vs. Cat 1&2 3 pt hitch, weighs 210 lbs more, 2 mph higher top speed. From what I have researched, thats everything.

I do like the idea of having that extra power there if needed, wider rear tires, more weight, and since we are filling the rear tires too that will only mean more ballast weight for when we use the loader also...

It does bother me a bit that the engine HP increase probably is just a "tune" and bumps up the boost...but it may be other things we are not aware of like injectors or something.

So, I think we are going to go with the NX5510. Its at the top of what we figured we would have to spend, and it may be more tractor than what we need. But as said above, I think there is great advice to the "cry once buy once" saying. I would hate to not get it, and then down the line, need it and then start tractor shopping again or be unhappy with our decision.

Thanks again everybody, it is greatly appreciated

If it helps, also think of your tractor as a "long term equipment rental". I think it's generally accepted that if you sell your new tractor within 10 years, and take care of it, that your cost of ownership will actually be very little when you sell it. On the other hand, if you keep it for 20 years, well, you probably got your money's worth even if you bought extra.

Sounds like you've decided to go bigger, you won't regret it. You can always get more attachments later when you feel the need, but you can't as easily get a bigger tractor after the fact.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

Hi all, I wont lie, I am totally new to the tractor world. Very familiar with cars and trucks, not so much on tractors. But, I have been reading articles, posts, and watching videos like crazy for the past 2 months learning what I can as we shop tractors.

Lets take the Kioti NX4510 and NX5510 for example. Both HST. Same basic tractor, 10 more HP. Otherwise between the 2, its larger (wider) tires, and a better 3 pt hitch, thats it I think.

So does 10 Hp matter, say your using a decent sized PTO Snowblower in what the town plows leave behind after a 12" snow fall, is that 10 Hp noticeable?

What about if your just pushing snow around with a pusher box, will the extra HP and TQ help?

Is there other benefits of more HP other than running the PTO?

Have you ever in your 35 or 40 Hp tractor, wished you had 45 or 50 Hp?

Curious to hear everyone's opinions, thank you!

I believe they say that you never hear a man mention, "I wish I had gotten a smaller tractor!".

I was thinking I wanted a 40hp when I found my 60hp which wasn't even 10% more money at the time for 50% more power.

I haven't looked back at the 40hp unit ever, although there are times I've looked further up the product line and wondered if I shouldn't have gone bigger.

 

[IndyIan]

I went with the lower hp version for cost and durability of the drivetrain. I like vehicles/tools to be under stressed/idiot proof, and while I couldn't see me ever wearing out a 20hp/l diesel engine, even using max power more often, I can see stressing the HST with more power. The cooling systems and gears aren't bigger on the 50hp version either so when I'm using my tractor as a bulldozer with the big box blade for a tank of fuel at a time I don't worry as much about it as all the drivetrain and cooling systems should be about to handle 10hp more.
I have run out of pto power running a buddies 4x5 round baler when the humidity picked up in the evening and probably the 50 would have run it a bit better but that's not my usual usage. My rotary cutter speed is almost always limited by how rough the ground is and the quality of the cut, not hp, and if I bought the rotary cutter again I'd go wider as its always easy to slow the tractor in a heavy spot with the hst.
So for my usage I'm glad I got a heavier tractor even with lower hp, as its more useful than a lighter tractor with more hp to me atleast.
If you think you are going to get into round baling hay or running a big rotary mower then go right to the 60hp version, or just get a big cheap old 2wd tractor.

 

[LD1]

My rotary cutter speed is almost always limited by how rough the ground is and the quality of the cut, not hp, and if I bought the rotary cutter again I'd go wider as its always easy to slow the tractor in a heavy spot with the hst.

I preach this all the time. This isnt the 1950's where your speed was limited by a geared transmission that was TOO fast.

Which is why I run an 8' twin cutter. Curious what size you choose for the DK

 

[IndyIan]

I preach this all the time. This isnt the 1950's where your speed was limited by a geared transmission that was TOO fast.

Which is why I run an 8' twin cutter. Curious what size you choose for the DK

Only 5' as it was quite a deal, and for trails its fine, but I'd get a 6.5' now. I mostly mow trails so going too wide isn't practical. The odd time I'm in grass and weeds up the the hood and the tractor never bogs, the mower just quits cutting well. For doing alot of fields or pasture though 8' would be great!
I run an old 9' haybine with no problems up to full speed in midrange where the field is smooth enough but have to feather the hst to avoid it clogging up the crimper in the heavy stuff.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

A 9' haybine runs quite a bit easier in heavy conditions, in fact much easier than a 6' rotary cutter in the same conditions.

SR

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

The 3038E is an economy tractor with a 62.7" wheelbase and weighs 2668 pounds and a 3ph lift capacity of 1356 pounds @24"

Deere must of have changed that number very recently on their website because their brochure states it is 2222 lbs.

The 3039R is bigger, but not quite as big as the GrandL.

The Grand L especially the L4060 which would be the comparison tractor to the 3039R is a much bigger tractor frame size wise and weighs 848lbs more then the 3039R.

 

[IndyIan]

A 9' haybine runs quite a bit easier in heavy conditions, in fact much easier than a 6' rotary cutter in the same conditions.

SR

Yep, a 6' brush hog with the blade speed fast enough to cut hay perfectly at 8mph would be a bit scary! My buddy has a 6' 3pth finish mower but he runs it with maybe 18 pto hp? His lawn isn't a golf course fairway so he's pto hp limited for maybe all of a minute on a 1 hour lawn...

 

[SPYDERLK]

Only 5' as it was quite a deal, and for trails its fine, but I'd get a 6.5' now. I mostly mow trails so going too wide isn't practical. The odd time I'm in grass and weeds up the the hood and the tractor never bogs, the mower just quits cutting well. For doing alot of fields or pasture though 8' would be great!
I run an old 9' haybine with no problems up to full speed in midrange where the field is smooth enough but have to feather the hst to avoid it clogging up the crimper in the heavy stuff.

Do you have a slip clutch on that RC? Either that or the blades are folding in at rated rpm.

 

[Martin Roper]

Aside from the difference of 10 hp rating at the PTO, it's 25% less (OR 33% MORE). A person who had used the NX5510 would absolutely notice the difference when using the NX4510. However, if no-one has eaten caviar, or sipped scotch, or chocolate cover strawberries, they don't miss them.
Remember the advise - buy all the tractor you can afford. As the owner, you don't necessarily get the use of the greater capacity, but you'll recover your money with the price you'll get when it's time to sell. And at some time, that tractor will be sold, either by you, or your heirs

Hi all, I wont lie, I am totally new to the tractor world. Very familiar with cars and trucks, not so much on tractors. But, I have been reading articles, posts, and watching videos like crazy for the past 2 months learning what I can as we shop tractors.

Lets take the Kioti NX4510 and NX5510 for example. Both HST. Same basic tractor, 10 more HP. Otherwise between the 2, its larger (wider) tires, and a better 3 pt hitch, thats it I think.

So does 10 Hp matter, say your using a decent sized PTO Snowblower in what the town plows leave behind after a 12" snow fall, is that 10 Hp noticeable?

What about if your just pushing snow around with a pusher box, will the extra HP and TQ help?

Is there other benefits of more HP other than running the PTO?

Have you ever in your 35 or 40 Hp tractor, wished you had 45 or 50 Hp?

Curious to hear everyone's opinions, thank you!

I think going down in power is always more noticeable than going up, having more power tends to be easier on the man and machine until the point it affects the pocket with the fuel used, but usually the extra power makes for more economical running.

 

[lpakiz]

DerpDerp,
My loader stays on all winter when the front blower is mounted.
I remove the forks or bucket, then lift the arms up til I can just walk under them. I have a hydraulic ball valve installed in the “raise” line so I lift the arms, close the valve, relieve the pressure then uncouple the 4 hoses for the loader.
Then I connect the 4 hoses from the blower and the PTO shaft and we’re ready to fight snow in comfort.
Using the loader requires detaching the blower and the hoses, pull the blower away on my dollies, couple up the loader hoses and open the ball valve.
It is clumsy to switch back and forth and if you do that more than 4-5 times a season, I think that will get old fast, but this works for me…..

 

[IndyIan]

Do you have a slip clutch on that RC? Either that or the blades are folding in at rated rpm.

No slip clutch, so I guess the blades could be folding in? It's an agri-ease 5' and only after I bought it did I realize they use the same gear box on the 5 and 6' so the blade speed isn't the highest even run a bit over 540 pto rpm. The blades are pretty heavy duty looking to me and it cuts up dirt pretty good, and there I can feel the blades fold in and out shaking the cutter quite a bit.

 

[finn1]

I’m a little confused. The OP only has three acres, if I read right, and will primarily use the tractor for fork work and snow blowing, with some driveway maintenance.

Fork work is definitely not a high power application. Strictly loader capability and tractor weight. Power just isn’t a factor.

Road maintenance is a similar situation. After a certain point, traction, which is analogous to tractor weight is the most important factor.

Snow blowing can be a power hog. Having said that, my 40hp Kioti CK4010 handles our 300” of annual snowfall quite nicely.

Bush hogging deep grass on 100 acres, or plowing virgin prairie would take massive power, but come on guys, he has three acres.

My recommendation would be that, for the property and work profile he described, he take a look at the slightly smaller DK series, and consider maybe going to one of the middle power ratings on that frame.

My only real issue on my CK 4010 is that the slight hump on the floor is a little unfriendly. A bigger tractor comes with a flat floor on the cab models.

Also, don’t even think about not getting a HST for the type of work the OP described.

 

[paulfun9]

I think it's more important to compare torque than horsepower.

It is but when talking tractors you are most likely talking about the same number + or -

 

[LD1]

It is but when talking tractors you are most likely talking about the same number + or -

But where would one measure torque?

At the engine? Lets say one tractor has 100ft-lbs and another of similar size has 150ft lbs. Is it really better? Transmission gearing, rear axle gearing, PTO gearing....all changes torque. Gearing does not change HP (except for inefficiencies like friction losses).

And torque still has no time element. I dont understand why so many think HP isnt a good number to compare. Horsepower is simply how much torque can be applied in a given time. So if you like torque so much....and hate comparing HP....is it the time element you hate so much?

One HP (think one working horse) is only capable of so much in a given day. But that same horse can generate anywhere for 1ft-lb of torque or 10,000ft lbs of torque. Just depends on how big of a lever or how many pulleys on a snatch block to gain mechanical advantage. But at the end of the day, its still only ONE HP.

 

[finn1]

Not exactly. Diesel engines in industrial equipment are designed to have high “torque rise” as the engine is lugged down from rated speed and load (power). The high torque rise assures that the “bottom doesn’t fall out” as additional load is placed on the implement.

Engines with low torque rise tend to stall in operation.

A common torque rise for turbocharged diesel tractor engines when I started in engine development back in the day was 15%. Naturally aspirated engines were significantly less, and gasoline engines were worse less.

The effect felt by the operator was that when the tractor drawbar load was significantly increased, the turbo tractor would keep moving. Gas tractors would stall, and na Diesels were somewhere in between.

There isn’t much published data for these small tractors, in my search. The owners are relatively unsophisticated as to the relationship between power and torque, and how it affects operation.

It’s a lot easier for marketing to spew power numbers, even though that’s only part of the solution.

By the time I retired, torque numbers had increased significantly, through the adaptation of intercoolers and high pressure fuel systems, but that’s another story.

Most tractors within a given frame size wouldn’t have different gear ratios for different power levels, primarily to keep assembly lines as simple as possible.

 

[rScotty]

On torque rise we should point out that it isn't a matter of which fuel....it makes no difference if it is gas or diesel. Torque characteristics are a function of engine design, not what fuel is used.

Some of the JD two cylinder gas tractors had tremendous torque rise when lugged. Same for some of the other tractors of that era using gas (or LP) industrial engines.

By contrast, our turbocharged Kubota M59 has a wide flat torque response over a wide RPM range, but not much additional torque response to load. I'm guessing that has to do with the EGR emissions tuning.
rScotty

 

[ROUSTABOUT]

Does 10 hp matter on the same size race car? There's no replacement for displacement.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

Does 10 hp matter on the same size race car? There's no replacement for displacement.

IF you went to a race track and told the drivers, "I can get you 10 more HP every time you race this car", how many would say, "naaaa I don't want it".

SR