Buying Advice Is it possible to go too big?

[PaultheMaleNurse]

Hello folks. Moving to a 58 acre property soon from the 'burbs (also escaping CA, but that is a different discussion) and am looking into getting my first tractor. About 28 acres of the land is previously farmed acreage that I want to keep knocked down and tamed by semi regular mowing/bush hogging. I have a full time job that is not farming and have no intention of farming the land myself, at least in the near future. Leasing some of the land to someone else to farm is something I want to look more in to. The rest of the land is very thick vegetation and trees. Solid wall of green type situation.

Besides the previously mentioned 28 acres of maintenance taming, over the next few years I want to potentially relocate, and certainly maintain, the gravel driveway into the property which is about 1500', create a gravel "road" to the more separated farm area for lessees to access that 15ish acres which will be at least another 1500', fell some timber and clear brush to make trails to the more wooded areas, potentially light grading for a future storage structure and swing set, and support of some heavier/specialized rented machinery for constructing a private shooting range with berm backstops in the back woods. Near the house I'd like to set up a sizable garden plot for the wife and kids to tool around in and some tree planting around the new driveway for future privacy.

My question is this: Should I start with a "learner size"? I've never owned or driven a tractor but from research I've seen that a fairly sizable machine would be ideal for my needs/wants. I've also gotten my heart set on a buddy seat so in a few years when I've learned to drive the thing and my very young children are a tiny bit older they can ride with dad. I think those moments will be priceless. I have no brand loyalty and I've yet to see how dealers around me treat their customers, which I've heard is a huge consideration. I've also got my heart set on a cab because frankly I think it will make chores like the mowing enjoyable instead of potential misery.

The machines I've been interested in thus far are the kubota m4d-071 and the tym 1104 and I'm mostly considering new instead of used. I'm slowly working my way though the other colors looking for other models of weight, power, and size to fit my needs but I've gotten a bit nervous about my lack of experience and piloting something this large and expensive without ever even sitting in a drivers seat. Any thoughts? Am I getting in over my head with machines this big? The terrain around my house is about as flat as a pancake which is at least in my favor and because I have a full time gig elsewhere, my off time, which I'm hoping a machine this size will save some of, is very valuable and more time I can spend with my young kids. Thanks for your help and looking forward to getting to know you all.

 

[Torvy]

You have a lot of variables going on. My thoughts on some things to consider:

I would seriously consider hiring out the mowing work in the near term. That would let you focus on getting your woods and driveway work done. It would also allow you to start smaller. In the current market, selling a gently used 35-50 HP CUT will not be difficult when or if you decide you need more.

Kids riding on tractors is another thing. I don't think I would have young children there while trying to get work done. More like just going for a 'ride'. If it were me, I'd do like Opa did and go with the lap, especially in a cab. Opa had all open stations but spent a lifetime around tractors. I'd save the buddy seat for older kids who you are trying to train or have the attention span to be aboard for more than 15 minutes. (this makes more sense assuming you start small). Imagine an inexperienced operator trying to get work done with a whining or screaming young kid in the way....in other words, think of the worst case scenario rather than the romanticized part with kids. There will be some awesome memories, but not all of them will be happy.

I would also seriously consider renting/borrowing to get some seat time if you have not spent time around this stuff. The tractor we will buy soon will be the first I have owned, but I grew up with them. Tractors are awesome, but they are also a dangerous piece of machinery. I hope you have a mentor or an awesome dealer from whom to learn. Enjoy! I am happy for you and interested in hearing about your journey.

(my older daughter just started work this summer as a BSN/RN...mom was, too...thanks for all you do!)

 

[jeff9366]

My question is this: Should I start with a "learner size"?

Selling a used tractor is easy. Selling multiple light implements in order to buy heavier, wider implements for a new, heavier tractor requires a lot of time. Depreciation on implements is worse than depreciation on a tractor.


Besides the previously mentioned 28 acres of field mowing, over the next few years I want to potentially relocate, and certainly maintain, the gravel driveway into the property which is about 1500', create a gravel "road" to the more separated farm area for lessees to access that 15ish acres which will be at least another 1500', fell some timber and clear brush to make trails to the more wooded areas, potentially light grading for a future storage structure and swing set, and support of some heavier/specialized rented machinery for constructing a private shooting range with berm backstops in the back woods. Near the house I'd like to set up a sizable garden plot for the wife and kids to tool around in and some tree planting around the new driveway for future privacy.

Your trails would have to be minimum seven feet wide with the Kubota, eight feet wide with the TYM. Disproportional to your land. Most want trails 5' or 6' wide.

The TYM at 8,666 pounds bare tractor weight, is appropriate for someone who will plant 60 to 80 acres of crop land as a full time occupation. In your applications any 8,666 bare weight tractor will be clumsy.

I recommend a tractor of about 5,000 pounds bare tractor weight as ample for your tasks and not too difficult to learn tractor skills operating. This weight tractor is ample for your current applications and will be ample for farming 28 acres should you decide to take on that task in the future. A prudent new operator can safely lift a one ton load with the Loader on any 5,000 pound bare weight tractor.

A 5,000 pound bare weight tractor with appropriate implements for your tasks will have an "all inclusive" operating cost of around $30/hour. Fuel use will be about .8 gallon per hour. Consider how many five gallon containers of fuel you will need to transport.....

All of the tractors above will need a good size barn with LARGE doors for storage. LARGE DOORS.

You do not realize how busy the operator is running a tractor. Farming is a hazardous operation and many farmers are injured operating their tractors. You need your wits about you and no distraction from children. Every time someone here seeks information on installing a radio in a cab tractor, I shudder. Kids are far more of a distraction than tunes.


When considering a tractor purchase, bare tractor weight first, tractor horsepower second, rear axle width third, rear wheel/tire ballast fourth.




A good first post.

 

[jeff9366]

Kubota M4-071 Dimensions​

Dimensions
Wheelbase:	84.1 inches 213 cm
Length:	142 inches 360 cm
Width:	75.6 inches 192 cm
Height (cab):	101 inches 256 cm
Standard Weight:	5952 lbs 2699 kg
Deluxe Weight:	6008 lbs 2725 kg
Clearance (front axle):	18.1 inches 45 cm
Front tread:	58.5 inches 148 cm
Rear tread:	56.2/68.7 inches 142/174 cm

TYM T1104 Dimensions​

Dimensions
Wheelbase:	90.6 inches 230 cm
Length:	165.4 inches 420 cm
Width:	86 inches 218 cm
Height (cab):	107 inches 271 cm
Weight:	8666 lbs 3930 kg
Ground clearance:	18.3 inches 46 cm

 

[Diggin It]

The phrase 'Biting off more than you can chew' comes to mind.

Is there timber that can be sold off? This would help clear some of the thickness without erasing the great green wall. Wooded areas you can't move around in aren't much use. Will this be in a wildfire prone area? If so, clearing may be essential.

Though many here will disagree, kids and big machines don't mix. Some will say they started out young and grew up on Pop's big tractor. Others will agree there is just too much risk.

Leasing to others can help you learn how they do it.

 

[finn1]

Sounds like you need a mid sized CTL, not a tractor. Tractors aren’t great at moving virgin dirt like you’ re describing. The CTL with a rotary mower driven by the hydraulic system will be more durable than a pto tractor mower on rough terrain, too.

 

[jeff9366]

About 28 acres of the land is previously farmed acreage that I want to keep knocked down and tamed by semi regular mowing/bush hogging.

It is just me, but I would make smoothing, then rolling your 28 acres a priority, so you can mow at 6 -7 mph without being bounced around in the process. Probably an intermittent three year task.

Here is a mowing calculator:

Mowing Calcuator | How many acres can I mow in an hour

www.landscapecalculator.com

With a 12' Bush Hog you can mow around nine acres per hour @ 7mph.

Before smoothing you will probably mow @ ~ 4mph.

 

[Egon]

The mowing can be done by a tractor set up with guidance equipment. Just drive around the field, set the controllers and put your favourite TV show on.

You would be best to lease out the mowing acreage for hay land. The rest of your anticipated projects seem to involve a lot of dirt work. You may be wanting to consider a smaller industrial type backhoe/ loader combination.

 

[Lineman North Florida]

I would go with a 35-45 hp compact tractor with a front end loader , bucket and grapple and 4x4 would be a must, I would also get a 6' bush hog rotary mower, start slow and ask lot's of questions and work your way thru it, maybe give a local farmer free or reduced rent on the farm land for a year for help and advice and work your way up to a larger tractor if that is what you want. You can do a lot of work with a 35-45 hp tractor with 4x4 and FEL, but whatever you do don't try to mow or do any work with a child on an open station tractor, as hard as it is to believe you just can't stop fast enough, I know three different kids in my area that fell off of tractors and had catastrophic or life changing results, doesn't mean you can't ride a child on a tractor just not with PTO driven implements and or harrows and plows going.Good luck, it's not rocket science or splitting atoms, you will do fine.

 

[dodge man]

I will address the learning process a little. My situation is different, I live on 3 acres so I started small with tractors and will never need a large one here.

If I look back at the 12 years I don‘t think I’ve had a situation I would have killed myself but certainly could have hurt myself. For example, tractors only have brakes on the back, if you are in 4 wheel drive you get braking to the front wheels. I went for a downhill ride through the woods with a bucket full of dirt and in 2 wheel drive. The bucket full of dirt makes the tractor nose heavy hence no rear brakes. Experience is hard to beat. At somewhere around 200 hours you will start to get comfortable and develop some skills.

Then there is the maintenance side. Do you have the tools and skills to maintain your tractor? They aren’t that hard to work on. Then you have to learn how to hook up implements. They need maintenance also.

I‘m not trying to be negative, just set some realistic expectations for you. I kind of believe in diving in all at once. Get the tractor you think you will need long term with the implements you will need. Just start slow and expect a few frustrating moments. Good luck and some new exciting times for your famil.

 

[PaultheMaleNurse]

Thank you very much to everyone for the replies and shared wisdom. Sounds like considering a smaller machine is something I need to do.

As a side note, while I am not interested in spending every waking moment maintaining and working on my land, I do have a significant interest in doing most of the work myself. Leasing out my land for a few pennies a year would be a mostly financial decision. The rest I want to do as purely a want. I likely could hire out for most of what I want to do, or rent machines for the few things I couldn't, but investing in taking care of this land and passing that on to my kids as they grow up (they are 1 and 2.5 years old) is something that is important to me.

On a bright note, step dad was a contractor and diesel mechanic so I grew up with a wrench in my hand and I've driven manual transmission cars and trucks since able. I'm hoping those things give me the tiniest of tiny legs up here.

 

[ericm979]

Don't forget to budget for implements to do the work. From the description in addition to a rotary cutter and box blade you may want a grapple or PTO chipper to deal with brush and tree parts. You can move dirt with a box blade and loader bucket, it's just slower than a more specialized dirt moving machine.

 

[dodge man]

Another thing to do is learn what you can from this forum. Learn the terms, for example you will want “loaded tires” and some additional ballast.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

The CTL with a rotary mower driven by the hydraulic system will be more durable than a pto tractor mower on rough terrain, too.

How do you figure?

 

[hosspuller]

25 years ago, I started out as a newbie on 30 acres. I WAS going to purchase a compact tractor. Luckily, more experienced people talked me out. I bought a full size tractor. The smallest ag tractor in the line. Called utility tractor. Discount horsepower rating. Hp merely determines the speed of your operation. It's frame size that determines the lifting, pulling, 3 point, etc. capacity. Example: A 6 foot rotary cutter weighs about 1200 pounds. That will be the upper limit for a CUT (note the length is a factor not only weight) A utility tractor will lift and handle it with ease. Of course, the PTO Hp will determine how fast you can operate in heavy growth... More Hp = faster.

 

[Cahaba Valley Farm]

25 years ago, I started out as a newbie on 30 acres. I WAS going to purchase a compact tractor. Luckily, more experienced people talked me out. I bought a full size tractor. The smallest ag tractor in the line. Called utility tractor. Discount horsepower rating. Hp merely determines the speed of your operation. It's frame size that determines the lifting, pulling, 3 point, etc. capacity. Example: A 6 foot rotary cutter weighs about 1200 pounds. That will be the upper limit for a CUT (note the length is a factor not only weight) A utility tractor will lift and handle it with ease. Of course, the PTO Hp will determine how fast you can operate in heavy growth... More Hp = faster.

Great post. Clear, concise and to the point.

 

[kenmac]

JMO. With that many acres. I wouldn't buy less than a 60-70 hp tractor.
I have no idea of your age, but you just may decide to do other things on your land (later) that would be difficult with a smaller tractor.
I have 50 acres and have two tractors. One a Kubota MX5100 and a larger CX 105 tractor.
I don't use the larger tractor all that often, but when I need a larger tractor it comes in very handy.

It has been said, ''There's no replacement for displacement''

 

[bdhsfz6]

In addition to all the other good advice given so far, consider this: If you plan to do work on densely wooded acreage or along a heavily limbed tree line, a tractor with a cab is not ideal. They are easily damaged if great care isn't used. As a novice, you'll need to learn where not to use a cabbed machine.

 

[hosspuller]

Kenmac... Ordinarily, I would agree with you on displacement. The new emission controls put a limit to that factor. Between 25 to 75 Hp tractors have a DPF, above that limit they have a DPF AND DEF. Maybe in the future EPA controls will be simple but right now... operating a EPA tractor at low levels and or short run times will quickly clog the DPF and other systems. It's better to use a lower Hp machine at the upper limit of its power than a high Hp machine idling along. I have two machines, I relegate the newest, with a DPF to long jobs where the exhaust system will reach operating temp and stay there to keep the system clear. I use the non EPA tractor for the chores that require on and off operation.

 

[PaultheMaleNurse]

I "took the scenic route" to this point in my life of being in my early thirties with two young kids and fleeing to the country. ****head until my early twenties, military, out and used my GI bill, found myself back in a CA that seemed greatly different than what I knew as a starry eyed kid, bought a CA home to do significant renovations on, had a couple kids, sold home and made a mint, moved 3000 miles to 58 acres in NC.