Just numbers, with maths

[GeneV]

Look to the third world countries, or those areas where vaccines are not nearly as available and see if you can justify your skepticism.

Why limit countries, let's go with continents. Start with Africa, how are they doing overall with covid?

 

[rjpotts]

Okay...that really tells us nothing at all. This is exactly why statistics absent of actual math is totally stupid. If there are only 6 ICU beds occupied by COVID patients and five are non-vaxinated but there's 100 ICU beds and only 15 others are occupied why do I care?

The data states that 70% of Iowans are fully vaccinated and that 84% of all covid patients in the ICU are not vaccinated.

If the vaccine were not effective then the ratio of vaxed/nonvaxed ICU patients would mirror the population resulting in 70% ICU patients being vaxed and 30% nonvaxed..... 84% > 30%

There, I've done the math and it remains clear that the vaccine reduces the rate of severe illness.

 

[GeneV]

What I'm concerned about is that these vaccines might be compromising the immune system, I'm starting to read a bit of that here and there.

 

[CobyRupert]

What I'm concerned about is that these vaccines might be compromising the immune system, I'm starting to read a bit of that here and there.

Where are you reading that?
IMHO, more people should trade their concern for the ability to discern.

 

[LD1]

I think one thing that makes us angry is the BIG lie that if you get vaxed if will prevent disease. Early on the "officials" acted as though if you got vaxed you were done. THEN the biggest lie of all was that "breakthrough" infections were "rare" and an anomaly. But there were more and more "breakthroughs". So many that the lie just would not stand up any more. One thing the experts do is lie, and continue to lie. It is at the point now, that I am not sure being vaxed has ANY benefits. So many people I know have been vaxed (as am I) and come down with bad cases of Covid.

Probably the best course of action is to get Covid as soon as you can, and hope you survive and can build natural immunity. Natural immunity appears to be stronger and longer lasting than any immunity we got from being vaxed. I had Covid in mid 2020 and before any vaccine was available. I had a mild case that lasted only a few days. But my wife was not so lucky. She got hit hard with long lasting symptoms. I think the sooner we all get on with our lives (or our deaths) the better off society will be. Covid will manage itself, and there isn't a darn thing we can do about it except continue to develop effective treatments for it, and perhaps to continue to search for a vaccine if possible that will prevent disease.

Pretty much nail on the head for me on exactly how I feel, with the exception I am not vaxed. And as of yet to see any reason to get the vaccine.

Its proven that they were wrong and it isnt effective. Their ONLY rebuttal is that "you wont get it as bad". Well....I dont buy that either.

I have believed from the beginning that shutting the country down in attempt to "slow" the spread was the wrong move and that it was just prolonging the inevitable. It NEEDS to run its course. Sure, we succeeded in slowing the spread.....we gave it time to mutate and now we have variants. What did we gain?

 

[sea2summit]

The data states that 70% of Iowans are fully vaccinated and that 84% of all covid patients in the ICU are not vaccinated.

If the vaccine were not effective then the ratio of vaxed/nonvaxed ICU patients would mirror the population resulting in 70% ICU patients being vaxed and 30% nonvaxed..... 84% > 30%

There, I've done the math and it remains clear that the vaccine reduces the rate of severe illness.

% of what? You still haven't given any data, you're just throwing opinions disguised as statistics.

 

[masscity]

Opinions and propaganda don't mean anything. Natural Selection will take care of business.

 

[GeneV]

Where are you reading that?
IMHO, more people should trade their concern for the ability to discern.

I'm not saying anything groundbreaking here, Coby. Here's an article from 2011, not about covid but just as relevant: Vaccination Alters the Balance between Protective Immunity, Exhaustion, Escape, and Death in Chronic Infections

 

[3Ts]

I think one thing that makes us angry is the BIG lie that if you get vaxed if will prevent disease. Early on the "officials" acted as though if you got vaxed you were done. THEN the biggest lie of all was that "breakthrough" infections were "rare" and an anomaly. But there were more and more "breakthroughs". So many that the lie just would not stand up any more. One thing the experts do is lie, and continue to lie. It is at the point now, that I am not sure being vaxed has ANY benefits. So many people I know have been vaxed (as am I) and come down with bad cases of Covid.

Probably the best course of action is to get Covid as soon as you can, and hope you survive and can build natural immunity. Natural immunity appears to be stronger and longer lasting than any immunity we got from being vaxed. I had Covid in mid 2020 and before any vaccine was available. I had a mild case that lasted only a few days. But my wife was not so lucky. She got hit hard with long lasting symptoms. I think the sooner we all get on with our lives (or our deaths) the better off society will be. Covid will manage itself, and there isn't a darn thing we can do about it except continue to develop effective treatments for it, and perhaps to continue to search for a vaccine if possible that will prevent disease.

The word "lie" may not be quite the correct word here, but maybe it is. Lie implies the intent to mislead. I don't think they know anymore than anyone who is keeping up on the information available, so maybe "guess" or "postulate" or ??? The problem I have with this is that they portray themselves as knowing the answer and what they tell us turns out to be wrong so they don't know! I think the general public can make appropriate decisions if they are given the information and let them come to their own conclusions.

When someone tells me they're an expert it immediately sends up a red flag. I worked for a company once that was trying to get into a new product line. They managed to get an opportunity to bid on a job and went to present it to the customer. I got selected to be the expert on "xyz" and spent an hour reading up on it before we had to do the presentation so I knew more about it than anyone in our company, but far from being an "expert". Turns out I did know more than our customer, but that's not saying much and I still don't think that qualifies me as an "expert". (We did not get the contract.)

 

[CobyRupert]

% of what? You still haven't given any data, you're just throwing opinions disguised as statistics.

He gave the % of Iowans vaccinated (conversely one can figure out % not vaccinated).
He gave the % of unvaccinated in ICU with covid (conversely one can figure out % in ICU vaccinated).

I don’t see where he gave an opinion.
He only stated the simple logic that if the vaccinated wasn’t effective, the percentages of vaccinated/unvaccinated in the ICU’s would be the same as the percentages of vaccinated/unvaccinated Iowans. They are not.
The numbers show that unvaccinated are more likely to be in ICU.

It’s a stretch, but I suppose one could try to argue that the vaccination is ineffective, but there’s something else about people who refuse the vaccine that makes them 3 times more likely to end up in the ICU.
Perhaps the type of person who is unvaccinated is just 3 times more unhealthy because they eat a poor diet, exercise less, have higher rates of obesity, diabetes and heart conditions?
Spitballing here, but perhaps their reaction to covid is more tied to their obesity and health than the vaccination?
If we did a study that says the unvaccinated are more likely to be unhealthy fat Americans and that’s why they end up in the ICU when they get covid (and not because they didn’t get the shot), then I’d believe the shot was ineffective.
I don’t think that data exists.
Meanwhile, the data shows who ends up in the ICU is related to the shot.