LD1
Epic Contributor
Nope....don't envy that at all.
I have crunched all these numbers on solar about 4-5 times in the past 20 years. I cannot seem to get below a 15 yr payback.
So looks like I'm probably gonna hold off again.
A newbies DIY solar install
- Thread starter jk96
- Start date
- Views: 37276
I have crunched all these numbers on solar about 4-5 times in the past 20 years. I cannot seem to get below a 15 yr payback.
So looks like I'm probably gonna hold off again.
LD1
Epic Contributor
I could probably get down around that if the surplus was paid a little better, at the $0.08 G&T rate....and if it would eat into the $57 service fee, and IF my separate meter would somehow be included.
I think there is some mis-information even on my COOP's website.
This is on their webiste:
I read that as you CAN make enough solar to have a $0 bill but will NEVER "make" money.
However when talking to them I was explicitly told there is NO WAY to ever have a bill less than $57. Seems contradictory.
And surplus credited at the "avoided cost" rate.....
There are two rates on my current bill. Distribution (my electric companies charge for poles, lines, service, etc) at $0.0266....and a generation and transmission charge (G&T) of ~$0.08/kwh. That is what they PAY buckeye power (I think) for buying electric. Then the "avoided cost" rate of $0.021
I would "assume" since they are currently buying their power for 8 cents.....charging an extra 2.6 cents to distribute it to everyone, that the avoided cost rate would be the higher 8 cents per kwh. Nope. Drops all the way to 2.1 cents.
Again.....they dont really seem to keen on people going solar.
With my electric bill only averaging $200....it seems $15k investment only to get my bill to average $120/month isnt a smart play.
I'd like to think that maybe the person I talked to was incorrect? Maybe the surplus does eat away at the $57 and maybe the avoided cost rate is a bit higher than 2.1 cents? I know of a couple of people in the area that do have some panels. I think I am gonna go talk to them and see if they will show me a bill. But I dont think any of the people that have solar have enough panels to make a surplus....so it may not reveal anything.
Roric
Silver Member
LD1
May I submit for your consideration a summary of the solar
array that I self-installed and it's expected payback. Keep in mind that the extreme variation of electrical utilties' rates, incentive programs, tax rebates and many other things mean that your milage may vary. Everyone should do their own homework and check and double check for"gimmies" and "gotchas".
I had been looking for years at solar for our home and for a long time I thought it was rich people that spent $40,000 on a system so they could brag about getting a $20 check every month from the electric company. When the prices of solar and components went down a bit and with the impending shrinking of the 30% federal tax credit, I refigured
the numbers and decided to act.
The system is a roof mounted 7.5 kw (20x375 watt panels), facing direct south-tilted at 19 degrees roof (4/12 pitch). Ironridge mounting and SolarEdge Optimizers and inverter with electric-vehicle charging outlet. Panels placed atop a detatched garage and the current from the inverter is piped about 200 feet to the production meter then to a 40Amp breaker in the main 200Amp house panel. Our home is 2600 sq feet with 2 kitchens 2 laundry rooms (a mother-in law space) with electric appliances. This is a grid-tied system in central Minnesota.
How I calculate payback:
Because of all of the different charges on our electric bill I am using dollars paid on our bill every month to keep it simple.
For the 2 years before solar the bills totalled $3600 or about 1800 a year, 150 per month averaged out. Since the solar array went online the bills average about $36 per month. We are also paid about 7 cents per kwh production as part of a "solar-rewards" program that is paid out for the first 10 years of production. Since production is about 9000kwh per year, we get a check for about $630 each year. We come out about $200 to the good each year so far.
(Also, we no longer have extended family living with us and we have been making energy smart ratings a big part of anything we purchase.
But we purchased a Plug-in-Hybrid that adds to our usage but subtracts from our gas bill. Probably a wash)
The cost of materials, equipment rentals, and permiting totaled about $14,000. The federal tax rebate of 30% reduced that to $9,800.
The $1,800 we were spending divided into $9,800 comes out to 5.44 years
That is what I use for payback. We are 2 years into this and as retired people, anything done to reduce monthly bills is very cool.
I found the installation to be logical, straight-forward and fun. I found dealing with the permiting, the utility and the city zoning hurdles most of the work and all of the headache. As a retired electrician, I was very well versed in permit processes but unprepared
for the hoops and ladders involved. Lessons learned.
That said, it was an adventure I'm glad I went through.
Remember your milage may vary.
Regards and good luck,
R
May I submit for your consideration a summary of the solar
array that I self-installed and it's expected payback. Keep in mind that the extreme variation of electrical utilties' rates, incentive programs, tax rebates and many other things mean that your milage may vary. Everyone should do their own homework and check and double check for"gimmies" and "gotchas".
I had been looking for years at solar for our home and for a long time I thought it was rich people that spent $40,000 on a system so they could brag about getting a $20 check every month from the electric company. When the prices of solar and components went down a bit and with the impending shrinking of the 30% federal tax credit, I refigured
the numbers and decided to act.
The system is a roof mounted 7.5 kw (20x375 watt panels), facing direct south-tilted at 19 degrees roof (4/12 pitch). Ironridge mounting and SolarEdge Optimizers and inverter with electric-vehicle charging outlet. Panels placed atop a detatched garage and the current from the inverter is piped about 200 feet to the production meter then to a 40Amp breaker in the main 200Amp house panel. Our home is 2600 sq feet with 2 kitchens 2 laundry rooms (a mother-in law space) with electric appliances. This is a grid-tied system in central Minnesota.
How I calculate payback:
Because of all of the different charges on our electric bill I am using dollars paid on our bill every month to keep it simple.
For the 2 years before solar the bills totalled $3600 or about 1800 a year, 150 per month averaged out. Since the solar array went online the bills average about $36 per month. We are also paid about 7 cents per kwh production as part of a "solar-rewards" program that is paid out for the first 10 years of production. Since production is about 9000kwh per year, we get a check for about $630 each year. We come out about $200 to the good each year so far.
(Also, we no longer have extended family living with us and we have been making energy smart ratings a big part of anything we purchase.
But we purchased a Plug-in-Hybrid that adds to our usage but subtracts from our gas bill. Probably a wash)
The cost of materials, equipment rentals, and permiting totaled about $14,000. The federal tax rebate of 30% reduced that to $9,800.
The $1,800 we were spending divided into $9,800 comes out to 5.44 years
That is what I use for payback. We are 2 years into this and as retired people, anything done to reduce monthly bills is very cool.
I found the installation to be logical, straight-forward and fun. I found dealing with the permiting, the utility and the city zoning hurdles most of the work and all of the headache. As a retired electrician, I was very well versed in permit processes but unprepared
for the hoops and ladders involved. Lessons learned.
That said, it was an adventure I'm glad I went through.
Remember your milage may vary.
Regards and good luck,
R
plowhog
Elite Member
- Joined
- Dec 8, 2015
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- 3,394
- Location
- North. NV, North. CA
- Tractor
- Massey 1710 / 1758, Ventrac 4500Y / TD9
holy cow ... my electrician offered "deal of the century" pricing to wire up solar at my NV residence.
I looked into it, wanted to do it, and could not justify it. Electric there (recently) was about .11 cents/kw.
cqaigy2
Super Member
Well, one to thing to think about, is you aren't taxed on the money you save, as apposed to the money you make. Power is way too cheap here for me to consider doing solar to replace my electric used from the grid. I mentioned in another thread, that if i get an EV i might think about doing self installed off grid, to partially offset power to charge it, but i would consider it mostly as hobby, not how much it would save.
From a small system i have a couple used, $50 200+ watt panels connect to. It's very cloudy here right now.
From a small system i have a couple used, $50 200+ watt panels connect to. It's very cloudy here right now.
cqaigy2
Super Member
Just wanted to show one where there was a bit of solar charging taking place.
Oaktree
Super Member
Would even make less sense for me, it's a rare month when my bill tops $50 (and almost 2/3 of that is "delivery" costs according to my statement). Add to that the fact that we only get a few hours of sunlight Nov. thru Feb. since the sun is so low in the sky. It would never pay for itself.
LD1
Epic Contributor
One thing is certain
For some it makes sense. For others it doesn't.
I'd say my limit on what's "worth it" is 8-10 year payback.
Too many variables to nail down an exact....but it's clear I'm pretty well outside 8-10 year.
The other unknown is that the less you use....the more per KWh you pay.
When I use a tiny 200kwh at my shop....bill is still $70. Now imagine adding another $10 because my $47 service charge goes to $57.
Only way to ever see a $50 bill here is to use ZERO electric. And that would just be the $47.75 service charge + tax...lol
For some it makes sense. For others it doesn't.
I'd say my limit on what's "worth it" is 8-10 year payback.
Too many variables to nail down an exact....but it's clear I'm pretty well outside 8-10 year.
The other unknown is that the less you use....the more per KWh you pay.
When I use a tiny 200kwh at my shop....bill is still $70. Now imagine adding another $10 because my $47 service charge goes to $57.
Only way to ever see a $50 bill here is to use ZERO electric. And that would just be the $47.75 service charge + tax...lol
buckeyefarmer
Epic Contributor
Interesting thread. I’ve crunched the numbers before, the only way feasible is a self install.
I keep detailed spreadsheet of my energy usage since building my house in 1997.
I keep sliding 12 month total each month, my highest is 26903 kWh / yr. lowest is 14435. These are only in last 10 yrs. before that they were lower. I would need system like JK96.
Yearly cost approximately $2400.
Not sure of net meter rules here.
Since 1997 I spent $34721 on electric, $57024 including electric, heat oil (replaced by geothermal 2012), and wood pellets.
Per month this yr, has varied from 645kwh to 2946kwh.
I keep detailed spreadsheet of my energy usage since building my house in 1997.
I keep sliding 12 month total each month, my highest is 26903 kWh / yr. lowest is 14435. These are only in last 10 yrs. before that they were lower. I would need system like JK96.
Yearly cost approximately $2400.
Not sure of net meter rules here.
Since 1997 I spent $34721 on electric, $57024 including electric, heat oil (replaced by geothermal 2012), and wood pellets.
Per month this yr, has varied from 645kwh to 2946kwh.
