Will they ever return to "the office"?

[oosik]

I retired at a very early age. So all of this does not have much affect.

My son has a job in Spokane. He lives on the west side of town - job is on the far east side. Two years ago he was given the opportunity to work at home. He jumped on it and now has adjusted and, I doubt, would want to go back to commuting. He has his office and all associated paraphernalia down in the basement. The business has even gone to internet conferencing - he really enjoys his job now.

 

[rademamj1]

For most offices, there must be a balance between remote work and onsite work. And Zoom meetings work well for basic communication, but when creativity and brainstorming is required, nothing replaces locking the team up in a conference room and finding solutions to specific problems.

Several banks found a major loss of critical job performance, until they broke the office into teams, requiring Team A in the office this week and Team B in the office next week. And so on. And that has temporarily improved the critical job performance problem, but opened up new issues, like when Team A is out of the office and doing remote work, now acts like the out of office week is a work holiday.

Additionally, Apple found that during the pandemic, about 23% of the remote staff contributed 85% of the workload. Leading to an Apple internal study identifying key and critical performers. And found they were nearly 50% overstaffed. Traditionally, Apple has never had layoffs.

 

[oosik]

I've found that truly rural living has its advantages and down sides. I relish in not having daily visits from the uninvited. Communication can be a down side. There are times when cell phone service and the internet are "down". Since this is not related to any job I have - I can live with it.

My rural life is relaxed, easy going and has very little stress. Everything I did not have when I worked in an office.

 

[Oaktree]

And so on. And that has temporarily improved the critical job performance problem, but opened up new issues, like when Team A is out of the office and doing remote work, now acts like the out of office week is a work holiday.

I always wondered about that. I wonder how many workers have the discipline to concentrate on the job during working hours when working from home. Way too many temptations to do personal stuff while on the clock.

I've found that truly rural living has its advantages and down sides. I relish in not having daily visits from the uninvited. Communication can be a down side. There are times when cell phone service and the internet are "down". Since this is not related to any job I have - I can live with it.

It takes a certain kind of person to thrive in a rural environment, different set of skills than to live in the city/suburbia. Yeah, I did my time in the city too. Ain't going back.
One of the other downsides you didn't mention to rural life is the lack of goods & services. It's a 2+ hour drive from here to a store that isn't Walmart.

 

[Oaktree]

That can be a good thing….
Years ago all our family farms except maybe 1 or 2 were sold off to wealthy city people that knew nothing, as you said. The original family farm owners were very capable of fixing anything.
I built a business on farming and improving the land and buildings the new “city” owners acquired. Has worked out very well and allowed me to pursue my career goals.

It can help “country” electricians, plumbers, landscapers, contractors make a lot of money. Yes, they are mostly helpless and need lots of help with their new “farms”.

Assuming you can find a tradesman that's even competent, let alone good. Plenty of hacks who own a hammer and a crowbar and know where they can borrow a saw who call themselves carpenters. Most don't last very long. Feel free to substitute the trade of your choice.

 

[oosik]

Yes - the drive into the "big city" can be trying. I've found after a few years out here - a whole lot of what I thought was REALLY necessary - isn't.

I've been "out here" 40+ years now. I can, easily, make do with what is available locally. I drive into the "big city" maybe two or three times a year.

 

[R_Walter]

Before I retired (in 2011) my job, training the military, had me on travel at least 1 week a month and sometimes the whole month for decades. So I got used to working on my computer wherever I was. But most of my coworkers had the routine 8 hours a day, 5 days a week jobs. As it seemed did most of the US with the exception of farmers.

Now "return to office" may be up in the air.
https://commercialobserver.com/2021/12/return-to-office-plans-companies-labor-day-october/

How do you all think this is going to affect the TBN community?

I envision the price of land rising out of sight as people that had to travel to the city core start to snap up the hinterlands. Farmland prices were already going up fast.
linky

Plenty of rural land is available. It is always more expensive the closer you are to major metropolitan areas. Get away from the east coast and west coast to more middle America and you can find more available and remote areas. I measure remoteness as distance from the nearest Walmart. In my case (northern NM) its 95 miles one way to my nearby Walmart.

 

[MossRoad]

My job is a physical job, so I cannot work from home. My wife works for a financial institution and has been working from home since April of 2020. She does go in about once every week or two for the day for things that need to be physically touched, like mail and plastic cards. Her team is and always has been very efficient. Her boss says they have even picked up productivity now that they all work remotely. Personally, I think it's because they all aren't sitting next to each other yacking about stuff not work related all day. They have a video conference every morning and can text chat or video chat with each other anytime they need to converse. The employer has removed all of their cubicles in the home office and set up just for work stations with NO computers. If they come into the office, they are expected to bring their company laptop in to use at the work station.

Her supervisor told their team that they do not see any reason for any of them to come back to the office in the foreseeable future. It's a win for the employer. It's working fine with them being remote. Less infrastructure to support. Less spaces to heat. Less areas to light. Less electricity used. Heck, less clogged toilets, toilet paper, feminine products, water usage, coffee. Huge savings.

 

[Oaktree]

My job is a physical job, so I cannot work from home. My wife works for a financial institution and has been working from home since April of 2020. She does go in about once every week or two for the day for things that need to be physically touched, like mail and plastic cards. Her team is and always has been very efficient. Her boss says they have even picked up productivity now that they all work remotely. Personally, I think it's because they all aren't sitting next to each other yacking about stuff not work related all day. They have a video conference every morning and can text chat or video chat with each other anytime they need to converse. The employer has removed all of their cubicles in the home office and set up just for work stations with NO computers. If they come into the office, they are expected to bring their company laptop in to use at the work station.

Her supervisor told their team that they do not see any reason for any of them to come back to the office in the foreseeable future. It's a win for the employer. It's working fine with them being remote. Less infrastructure to support. Less spaces to heat. Less areas to light. Less electricity used. Heck, less clogged toilets, toilet paper, feminine products, water usage, coffee. Huge savings.

Another business expense that employers are dumping onto the employees, much like expecting them to have high speed internet, a smartphone, etc. available for work use but on their own dime. Not everyone has a separate room they can use as a home office, away from spouse, kids, pets, etc.
Am I the only one who prefers a "real" computer to a laptop or tablet? To me those are just too cramped and awkward for anything other than casual use.

If this trend continues, it's less than good news for businesses that depend on the work crowd...lunch restaurants, dry cleaners, etc.

I'm mostly retired so it's kind of moot, but I don't think I would want a WFH job. I may not be the most social guy on the planet, but the isolation would get to me after a while. I'd rather actually work with my co-workers in something other than a zoom meeting. I see your point about "too much yacking", but often as not, that leads to better teamwork in person than virtually.
Then there's the "too much togetherness" aspect with family, room-mates, etc., getting on one anothers' nerves. At least to me, I prefer separate work and home environments, much as I rarely dated anyone from work when I was single.

 

[MossRoad]

Another business expense that employers are dumping onto the employees, much like expecting them to have high speed internet, a smartphone, etc. available for work use but on their own dime. Not everyone has a separate room they can use as a home office, away from spouse, kids, pets, etc.
Am I the only one who prefers a "real" computer to a laptop or tablet? To me those are just too cramped and awkward for anything other than casual use.

If this trend continues, it's less than good news for businesses that depend on the work crowd...lunch restaurants, dry cleaners, etc.

I'm mostly retired so it's kind of moot, but I don't think I would want a WFH job. I may not be the most social guy on the planet, but the isolation would get to me after a while. I'd rather actually work with my co-workers in something other than a zoom meeting. I see your point about "too much yacking", but often as not, that leads to better teamwork in person than virtually.
Then there's the "too much togetherness" aspect with family, room-mates, etc., getting on one anothers' nerves. At least to me, I prefer separate work and home environments, much as I rarely dated anyone from work when I was single.

We had unlimited internet anyway, so it didn't matter.
Her work doesn't require her to use her personal phone, as all work voice and video calls are made over the laptop.
They gave her an extra monitor, a standard keyboard, and a mouse to use in conjunction with her laptop, so for all intents and purposes, it's a PC with two monitors.
Her workspace is a small table in the corner of the living room. The only distractions she has are the two cats that want to sit on her keyboard when she's working.

One of our kids comes home for several weeks per year. She also works from home, so she just sets up a table next to her mom and they both seem to be just fine.

As for yacking...

Check your PC's activity monitor. It's almost always 95%+ inactive. So are most workers when they get together.

People in groups tend to goof off. They don't mean to. They don't intend to. But they do. For example, after surviving 5 rounds of Reduction In Force (permanent let-goes) of 2/3 of the workforce at my employer, we were still putting out the same product. Some of that was due to technology, but most of it was people were not working at their capacity. Everyone took on more responsibilities and still had time for coffee breaks. People almost never work to their maximum potential for extended periods.

 

[Oaktree]

We had unlimited internet anyway, so it didn't matter.


People in groups tend to goof off. They don't mean to. They don't intend to. But they do. For example, after surviving 5 rounds of Reduction In Force (permanent let-goes) of 2/3 of the workforce at my employer, we were still putting out the same product. Some of that was due to technology, but most of it was people were not working at their capacity. Everyone took on more responsibilities and still had time for coffee breaks. People almost never work to their maximum potential for extended periods.

I get what you're saying, but as I mentioned upthread, if people tend to goof off when they're at the office, it seems they'd be even more likely to when no one's watching, and they're at home with plenty of personal distractions.

As far as home internet, that may be true, but they're still expecting you to use something you're paying for personally for their business needs. I suppose if you itemize, you could find a way to partially deduct some of the cost, but determining (and proving) what percentage is business vs personal could be a challenge. The IRS is picky enough re: home offices when you own the business.

 

[CADplans]

I live in what we considered "rural" 40 years ago,,
Our property has LOTS more neighbors,, now,,
Even now, the nearest grocery store is ten miles away.
That distance includes ANY place to spend $$$,, gas station, anything,,

There is ONE SURE sign that we will not be rural for long,,

Last year, the electric company brought fiber optic internet to our home.
We upgraded from DSL service about six months ago,,

Well,, the proof of more civilization moving near me is,,
a service technician for the local landline company told me that we could switch to THEIR high speed fiber optic service in less than a year!!

TWO competing fiber optic companies,,
those companies must be POSITIVE that there will be a LOT MORE CUSTOMERS,,, SOON!!
(SOMEONE needs to pay for all of that infrastructure upgrade,,,)

I guess it is time to look for property that is only served with DSL (or maybe "dialup") in 2024, and beyond,,

 

[Oaktree]

TWO competing fiber optic companies,,
those companies must be POSITIVE that there will be a LOT MORE CUSTOMERS,,, SOON!!
(SOMEONE needs to pay for all of that infrastructure upgrade,,,)

Yeah, the taxpayers. There are federal grants for expanding broadband into rural areas. That's how we got cable here in the early teens. Interestingly, even though the cable company and the phone company both ran fiber down my road, the "last mile" for either one is still copper! I asked the cable tech a while back while he was doing something on one of the poles why it was done that way. Got kind of a non-answer.

 

[newbury]

<snip>

Last year, the electric company brought fiber optic internet to our home.
We upgraded from DSL service about six months ago,,

Well,, the proof of more civilization moving near me is,,
a service technician for the local landline company told me that we could switch to THEIR high speed fiber optic service in less than a year!!

TWO competing fiber optic companies,,
those companies must be POSITIVE that there will be a LOT MORE CUSTOMERS,,, SOON!!
(SOMEONE needs to pay for all of that infrastructure upgrade,,,)

I guess it is time to look for property that is only served with DSL (or maybe "dialup") in 2024, and beyond,,

I think that's all due to Federal grants. Same thing is happening in Northeast Mississippi -
The telephone company has been stringing fiber, MOSTLY buried for since June 2019. Last I talked to them, summer 2021, it was going to take them 3 or 4 more years to get to me. They are charging:

1 GIG // $79.95
100 Mbps // $49.95

The power company started later, but they are stringing it on poles and expect to get to me by next fall according to the rep I talked to a month ago. They are charging :
Residential Packages

• 100 MBPS - $54.90/month
• 1 GBPS - $84.90/month

It's a total mess, running the same service past the same houses twice.

 

[Larry Caldwell]

Most Homeowners can't find and reset a GFCI Outlet, not sure how they will make it in the country. Especially with limited internet service.

Good point. I still remember the struggle of the first few years after I bought my first acreage. It was like climbing out of a deep hole to shed all the city services and move toward self-reliance, and I grew up on a farm. Of course, I got up every week day and went to work, which maybe is not necessary in this century. More time at home means more time to figure out why there is no water at 6 AM.

As for internet service, the infrastructure bill included big bucks for rural broadband, plus Skynet is coming along. I already have a friend who uses Skynet. They already ran fiber to my place, which astonished me. They made a deal to string fiber on power poles. I'm the last house on the power line, but after they wired my place they set some poles and kept right on going.

Fifty years ago I was fortunate enough to have dinner with Frank Herbert. One of the things he said was that he saw us moving toward a post-industrial society with a move toward cottage industry. In the intellectual industry, that has been a blinding flash over the last two years. With robots taking over production work, I don't know what will happen with that.

 

[arizona98tj]

Just because you have high-speed internet being installed, I wouldn't say that's a guarantee that more customers are moving in down the road.

I live in the woods in northern Minnesota and have the option of 250Mbps, 1Gbps, 2Gbps, 6Gbps, or 10Gbps connectivity from my communications co-op....and that is fiber optic cable to the modem in my basement, not copper the last xx miles to my house. It is all buried underground so ice & blizzards, wind storms, falling trees, etc. don't take out my service. That means you don't need lots of linemen, trucks, equipment, etc. to put it all back together throughout the year. Putting wires on poles and hoping for the best from mother nature isn't always a good solution.

Some time ago, the co-op I have ownership in decided to move forward with high-speed connectivity, among other things. I'm sure they took advantage of grants from the government when available. If they didn't, we'd be voting new members in to sit on the board of directors. After all, it's a business but we aren't in it to make a profit, just to provide reliable and cost-effective service to ourselves.

 

[Oaktree]

Some time ago, the co-op I have ownership in decided to stop move forward with high-speed connectivity, among other things. I'm sure they took advantage of grants from the government when available.

Nice option if you have it available. Unfortunately, nothing like that exists here. Telco where my mother lives ran gigabit fiber to all customers, but that company doesn't do business where I live.

BTW, we did a road trip to the upper midwest this past summer, spent a couple days in Bemidji, nice country there!!

 

[riptides]

I live in what we considered "rural" 40 years ago,,
Our property has LOTS more neighbors,, now,,
Even now, the nearest grocery store is ten miles away.
That distance includes ANY place to spend $$$,, gas station, anything,,

There is ONE SURE sign that we will not be rural for long,,

Last year, the electric company brought fiber optic internet to our home.
We upgraded from DSL service about six months ago,,

Well,, the proof of more civilization moving near me is,,
a service technician for the local landline company told me that we could switch to THEIR high speed fiber optic service in less than a year!!

TWO competing fiber optic companies,,
those companies must be POSITIVE that there will be a LOT MORE CUSTOMERS,,, SOON!!
(SOMEONE needs to pay for all of that infrastructure upgrade,,,)

I guess it is time to look for property that is only served with DSL (or maybe "dialup") in 2024, and beyond,,

Your area is funded by some serious research dollars at the Hokie nation.

Growths been coming your way for at least a decade if not more.

I was almost there 20 years ago, but a job got yanked out from under me at the last minute.

 

[CADplans]

Your area is funded by some serious research dollars at the Hokie nation.

Growths been coming your way for at least a decade if not more.

I was almost there 20 years ago, but a job got yanked out from under me at the last minute.

Yes, I agree we do have some serious $,$$$,$$$,$$$ being spent near where I live, because we are close to VT.
There is a turn off of Rt 311 on to Rt 785, near where I live,,

VA-311 · Virginia

Virginia

www.google.com

Well, the Hokie football fans that know this route use this as a "shortcut" to Blacksburg on football game days.
(That is 6 or 8 days a year)
They go this way, because football traffic slows down I81 interstate to a crawl on game day.
They had so much political pull, they had the intersection changed, because they did not like the narrow 2 lane road.

800 feet of straight up solid rock on the north side of Rt 311 was moved back, about 50 to 75 feet.
The road had extra lanes added,, (there are no turn lanes anywhere else on Rt 311, like this)
The south side of Rt 311 was opened up also,, just to make turning onto Rt 785 easier,,

The excavation went on for months,,
A friend that traveled that road to get to work asked me if I knew what was going on,,
I told him that Dollar General was making room, to build a new store!!
He believed me, and told ALL of his neighbors,,
BOY, was he upset when he found out there was no new store coming!!

 

[arizona98tj]

BTW, we did a road trip to the upper midwest this past summer, spent a couple days in Bemidji, nice country there!!

If you make it up here again, stop by and I'll give you the guest password for the WiFi. We like it up here. Grew up here as a kid and moved back to retire after being gone for too long.