Hay Farmers getting out of farming

[sree251]

Explain please exactly how you jump from crop subsidies to national security? Take them away, reduce regulations to a common sense level, and let free market take over and you’ll save the farmer.

Look, let's look at the basics. Food is a necessity for any nation. You either produce it if you can or buy it from other countries and be at their mercy. Our country must do everything possible to protect the health of our farming industry. The free market has destroyed our manufacturing industry. And that's fine if we support globalization and practice a free market without national borders. Then, let the American farmer die a natural death. Are you willing to pay that price for a free market economy?

 

[OzarkChris]

Since its all about “feelings” now, why dont we make it punishable to tease or belittle young-uns who want to learn to farm or go to trade school and dont want to go to college?
Then maybe the “shame” attached to not being a college grad will go away and more kids may consider farming?

I tend to mostly agree, but anymore the kids that go to college for farming are actually doing a better (more efficient hence, more profitable) job at farming. I totally agree with you that this recent push to have "everyone" a college graduate is wrong. We really need the blue collar workers to be a working society.

 

[OzarkChris]

I disagree, I think farmers need to make or not and shouldn't get influenced by the government to plant or not plant any crop. In the same way government has no place in setting the prices and the consumers need to pay the actual cost of the product so farmers can actually make a fair wage, fairly.

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I think that the row croppers are the only subsidized farmers - nut farmers are sort of like row croppers. My understanding for those subsidies is for two reasons. First, by having a "quota" limit on certain crops it keeps the prices reasonable - i.e, enough for a farmer to be able to actually grow stuff and make a modest profit and Two, to have a "federal reserve" of land ready to be planted in case of a national disaster (you guys have a good time talking about climate being a national disaster). I'm sure a row cropper out there could add some refinement to this. If you don't have row choppers, you don't have your soy or most other vegan foods.

If we get out of farming, we would (as sree said) have a national security issue - the same way Germany, UK, etc are now totally reliant on Russia for fuel - we are on our way there with this administration by taking away the energy self sufficiency we achieved in the previous administration. Food would be even worse - look what happened when we slowed the amount of food going to China.

If anyone out there knows of subsidies for hay, beef, etc please let me know. Like just about any other small business, I can take deductions for business expenses - capital equipment, depreciation, expendables etc. Most states do have a farm license/ registration but the amount that is discounted typically would be the same if you could consider the amount of time these vehicles are NOT on pavement or public roads and deduct those miles off normal registration.

I've heard the argument that we can get reduced pricing on fuel, too. Again, this argument is not based on facts. We can (and do) use "Off Road Fuel" / Red fuel for our "Off road" vehicles. But heaven help you if you get caught with red dye in your truck. If you have off road vehicles - diesel ATV, SXS, Tractor(s), etc you too can use red fuel and not pay "road tax".

By the way, when are you guys going to pave all our roads? I'll bet I put as many miles per year (if not more) on my vehicles as you do, but my road taxes go for fixing and creating roads in the big cities not for the dirt County roads around here.

Bottom line - and I'm sure you've heard this before - please don't complain about farmers with your mouth, belly etc full. If we all go away y'all would probably die of starvation.

 

[3 Horse Ranch]

You know what? I never understood why there are even farmers. It's a tough life working the land. Farmers don't ever make a killing, the kind they make on Wall Street. The best thing going for them is to cut their risks by selling to a commodities trader. It is sad when we don't even protect our own farmers.

To the average city dweller, farmers aren't needed at all. Milk come in plastic jugs from the store, cereals come in boxes, vegetables come in cans or frozen bags. Meat comes in cans, or Styrofoam trays with plastic wrap. Fruit comes in cans or the produce aisle along with the noncanned vegetables, Why do we need farmers at all, I can get everything I need at Walmart.

 

[ddbackhoe]

Really? Government has no role in tending to the security of the nation? I am for a free market but I am not a mindless ideologue who will stand by and allow the farming industry get decimated by one thing or another. The younger generation is drifting away from the tough life on the farm. Shall we watch that happen? Or should we launch an initiative to stem that tide? There are initiatives to save the environment. How about one to save the farming industry as a matter of national security?

Behind the curve in my area. You cant find a teenager that is willing to work retail much less outside. Yea, there’s quite a few that apply for jobs but there is a high turnover when they realize that they are expected to show up on time and actually do something. Keeping their attention away from their phone is almost impossible. See that with our weekend camping friends too. Sitting around the fire at night, they are all on their phones and “too busy” posting about their day to socialize.

 

[ddbackhoe]

To the average city dweller, farmers aren't needed at all. Milk come in plastic jugs from the store, cereals come in boxes, vegetables come in cans or frozen bags. Meat comes in cans, or Styrofoam trays with plastic wrap. Fruit comes in cans or the produce aisle along with the noncanned vegetables, Why do we need farmers at all, I can get everything I need at Walmart.

Well, now that the push is on to make everything plant based, where is the city dweller gonna get that without farmers? Newest commercial I have noticed is how wonderful plant based eggs are How far away are they from buying Soylent green and being happy?

 

[sea2summit]

Look, let's look at the basics. Food is a necessity for any nation. You either produce it if you can or buy it from other countries and be at their mercy. Our country must do everything possible to protect the health of our farming industry. The free market has destroyed our manufacturing industry. And that's fine if we support globalization and practice a free market without national borders. Then, let the American farmer die a natural death. Are you willing to pay that price for a free market economy?

Hu, you don't think over regulation and poor tariff practices pushed manufacturing out? Globalists, yes, are behind it but the bottom line is regulation/unions/tax practices all contributed.

 

[lman]

My sister's family milks about 1200 cows. They don't need to buy much fertilizer because they are able to fertilize their fields with the manure. Milk prices had not been good for several years but they are still at it.

 

[Hay Dude]

The farmer doesn't want to make more. He just want to get what he worked hard for: a good harvest and a decent price for his labor. No farmer ever worked his farm out of greed. Greed is what the free market is about.

I feel like I should be making more, but its an endless cycle of repairs, paying for this and that. Input prices at retail, while sales at wholesale.
Once its in your blood, you cant quit. Ive seen farmers called greedy, cheat the system, etc….. What the people calling them that dont realize is how much planning, risk and work it is. It really is gambling. I was never a gambler, but always enjoyed the ”rush” of taking a risk. Enjoy giving the finger to the guy who says ”you cant do that” and I do it.
There are days when I think, if I have this money invested in machinery and like to operate it, just get into the land clearing business or excavating business. You can operate machinery all day long. But no, theres nothing like farming. Nothing like seeing the 4x4x8’s coming out of the baler or the beans going in the truck.…

 

[OzarkChris]

Unfortunately, many "big city" folk wouldn't survive out here in the sticks for very long. I've seen it first hand with a bunch of them moving out around here trying to "play" Green Acres. For some reason they tend to believe that if they move to a smaller "hick town" everything will be just the same as it was in the big city. Then they do the unforgivable, they try to make the small town into the big city.

I might have said this in another post somewhere, but this last summer we had a big city family move into a small 5 acre lot and decided to have a few chickens for fresh eggs, free range chicken, etc. Several of us tried to help them get started, offering to "teach" them what was necessary. But they couldn't be bothered. Long story short, they bought about a dozen chickens (from a known shister 'round here), put them in the yard and bought a whopping 20# of scratch (from TSC). After about 3 weeks or so they got really disillusioned because they wanted some fresh eggs & chicken. My understanding is that they had a couple of the boys round here kill a chicken but thought it would be great fun to dress it out. Didn't ask and didn't know what they were doing so pulled out some feathers and must of got tired of it. We found the chicken out in the ditch about 1/4 plucked, no head and waiting for the first critter to come pick it up - sad.

The next day they were asking anyone they could find if we wanted to buy some chickens. Nobody round d here liked the stock (or the guy they bought them from) and didn't want to introduce problems into our flocks so we passed. Found out they had to sell them back to the guy they bought from for transportation charges $3-5/head.

So, they bought high (we heard $10-15/head for old/barely laying stock), paid to have them taken back and never got an egg or any meat from them.

BTW, they sold the 5 acres & moved back to the big city where I'm sure they are much happier with milk cartons and chicken that are "raised" on yellow foam trays!

 

[shooterdon]

Things change.

I see fewer small farms today than 50 years ago. One family near me has over 2000 acres in hay. They have a mix of owned and leased property. All the leased properties are smaller farms that got out of farming.

100 or 200 acre "family farms" are going to keep decreasing. If a family has two or three kids, what happens when the father passes? Most of the kids want to 'cash out'. A farm that supported one family cannot support two or three.

Even if one of the kids wanted to keep farming, how does he address the rights of his siblings? Where does he get the loan for the buyout?

With every generation it gets worse.

One of my friends lives in "The old farmhouse". It was part of a 100+ acre farm his family had at one time. It is down to three acres, and he co-owns the property with three other members of the family. It is not worth much....maybe $60k. His sister lets him live there out of charity as long as he maintains it and pays the taxes. His niece and nephew have not pushed for "their share" yet, but they own 12.5% each. My friend cannot come up with $15k to buy them out.

BTW, the rest of the 100+ acreage was split into smaller parts as people died off. None of the land is farmed today.

Of the 400-500 acres close to me that was farmed 30 years ago, less than 150 is farmed.

 

[OzarkChris]

Well, now that the push is on to make everything plant based, where is the city dweller gonna get that without farmers? Newest commercial I have noticed is how wonderful plant based eggs are How far away are they from buying Soylent green and being happy?

Wife & I were at the store the other day and saw a can called Soylent Green in the clearance section. We are both old enough that we just had to laugh.

 

[tjandrews]

To the average city dweller, farmers aren't needed at all. Milk come in plastic jugs from the store, cereals come in boxes, vegetables come in cans or frozen bags. Meat comes in cans, or Styrofoam trays with plastic wrap. Fruit comes in cans or the produce aisle along with the noncanned vegetables, Why do we need farmers at all, I can get everything I need at Walmart.

Oh, I dunno. In my experience, they simply need to be educated.
Mentioned before, we live near Syracuse, NY. We live near the suburbs, on a road that's a major route for commuters. In addition to selling horse hay retail from our barn, we've been running a farm stand since we were kids, growing and selling a variety of locally-grown vegetables and fruits for 60 years. For the last 20 years or so, we've been getting a LOT of feedback from our customers about how much better our stuff is than what the area's supermarkets sell. We are seasonal, of course, and we are constantly hearing from our customers that they don't shop for produce in the stores when we are open. More and more are expressing appreciation since we started a Facebook page.
So, we can all sit back and complain because the world isn't fair, or we can each work in our small way to make things better.

 

[OzarkChris]

Behind the curve in my area. You cant find a teenager that is willing to work retail much less outside. Yea, there’s quite a few that apply for jobs but there is a high turnover when they realize that they are expected to show up on time and actually do something. Keeping their attention away from their phone is almost impossible. See that with our weekend camping friends too. Sitting around the fire at night, they are all on their phones and “too busy” posting about their day to socialize.

We are a bit luckier out here - It helps that our cell coverage is minimal at best. We still have really active FFA & 4H groups and the schools still have farming classes for the high schoolers who want to take them. Most kids (& grownups) round here don't have a problem working hard. It's the way they were raised.

 

[MossRoad]

Wife & I were at the store the other day and saw a can called Soylent Green in the clearance section. We are both old enough that we just had to laugh.

 

[LHF2019]

Once its in your blood, you cant quit.

You're not kidding. I tried. Auctioned everything off and went to work in factory. The first time I sat on a tractor after the auction to plow snow I thought I can't quit. 3 months later had a new round baler in the driveway and never missed a season. After 8 years in the factory and doing custom I "retired" from factory life and went back at it full time cause something was going to give. Sure do miss the $$$$ but wouldn't trade it.

 

[Hay Dude]

Just cut 35 acres of conservancy land yesterday and this morning
Another 25 tomorrow

 

[JDZ735M]

I feel like I should be making more, but its an endless cycle of repairs, paying for this and that. Input prices at retail, while sales at wholesale.

The Farmer is the only one who sells at wholesale and buys at retail.

 

[Snobdds]

It's funny hearing farmers complain about this. Farmers that don't even have to use irrigation on their hay fields. Come out west, see what it's like. I know a bunch or ranchers that would gladly change places and make it a profitable endeavor.

Out west, hay fields need irrigation. Those that own the water rights, own the profitable hay fields. If you have to buy the water, well...you're just running and going nowhere.

Water rights are king and more valuable than the land in some cases. I own the water rights from the source to my ranch, and everyone wants a piece of it. It's been this way before Wyoming was a state, going back 5 generations. I've had governors and senators at my place begging for water. I give my neighbor, who worked with my grandfather and runs his cattle on my land all the free water he can handle. It drives everyone else crazy I give it to him for free, while no price can buy the excess.

Never complain, as there are other making due with less.

 

[sree251]

Behind the curve in my area. You cant find a teenager that is willing to work retail much less outside. Yea, there’s quite a few that apply for jobs but there is a high turnover when they realize that they are expected to show up on time and actually do something. Keeping their attention away from their phone is almost impossible. See that with our weekend camping friends too. Sitting around the fire at night, they are all on their phones and “too busy” posting about their day to socialize.

That's how they socialize: on their phones. Connecting with the world is a lot more savvy that brush hogging on a tractor.

We are a permissive society. Dad is no longer allowed to instill discipline. Mom is in charge. Not the mom who raises a family but the mom whose home is out on the range where mindless social issues roam. This cultural disease of the city has spread throughout the land.