Hay Farmers getting out of farming

[MossRoad]

I hear you but MossRoad has those figures on farm incomes. You don't think his info is legit?

Don't drag me into it. Those are the USDA's numbers, not mine.

 

[MossRoad]

Had a cousin that was a big draw for local organic vegetables and had set up in hot houses...

Had a good run for about 25 years but with organic everywhere the margins squeezed and shut it down... they also now enjoy weekends without farmers markets... etc.

The flip side is during the Depression when city folks were in food lines the farm family always had food and a roof over their head... "Subsistence Farming"

Heck, in the depression my mom's family lived in inner-city Cincinnati, and raised chickens for eggs, rabbits for meat, and turnips and rutabagas for veggies and rabbit food, all in their small back yard. It kept them alive.

 

[sree251]

Don't drag me into it. Those are the USDA's numbers, not mine.

I hope those numbers are wrong. I have been in a funk all day after seeing those numbers.

 

[ultrarunner]

Heck, in the depression my mom's family lived in inner-city Cincinnati, and raised chickens for eggs, rabbits for meat, and turnips and rutabagas for veggies and rabbit food, all in their small back yard. It kept them alive.

Yes… even in Oakland my neighbor grew up with a cow for milk and the grass came from mowing lawns…. he took me by the place 40x100 city lot with 850 sq ft home and a covered stall all the way in back.

The folks that would wait in food lines were apartment and SRO tenements…

 

[Hay Dude]

Looks like the carpet on the stairs can be saved...

You would know.

 

[Hay Dude]

And 682 posts in 26 days... Now that is something to brag about!

You try being stuck at home with the injuries I had. You get bored. I couldn’t walk for almost a week. Of course I’m sure you’ll get a kick out of that.

 

[ddbackhoe]

I do have about 15,000 acres of hay meadows...I do know more than most about it and enough to know it takes a special kind to do it.

So you're the real John Dutton?

 

[LHF2019]

It's funny hearing farmers complain about this. Farmers that don't even have to use irrigation on their hay fields. Come out west, see what it's like. I know a bunch or ranchers that would gladly change places and make it a profitable endeavor.

Out west, hay fields need irrigation. Those that own the water rights, own the profitable hay fields. If you have to buy the water, well...you're just running and going nowhere.

Water rights are king and more valuable than the land in some cases. I own the water rights from the source to my ranch, and everyone wants a piece of it. It's been this way before Wyoming was a state, going back 5 generations. I've had governors and senators at my place begging for water. I give my neighbor, who worked with my grandfather and runs his cattle on my land all the free water he can handle. It drives everyone else crazy I give it to him for free, while no price can buy the excess.

Never complain, as there are other making due with less.

I don't care what ag industry your in or what part of the country/world your from it is never going to be easy street. We go over approx 260 acres of hay ground selling to locals. 2020 was our best year ever and 2021 was our worst. I'm really hoping this year is somewhere in the middle. If I told you the volume we were getting off our fields you would think it should have been our best year but mother nature had other plans. I still have first cutting standing in a field that was just to wet to get to. In total there is about 40 acres of different cuttings still standing we never got to, customers orders that were never filled, and lots of low quality baleage that will be a tough sell that should have been put up in small squares through out the summer.

define tough...

Long hours and tough are not one in the same.

My final year in the factory I worked 48+ straight hours. I worked 3rd shift 6pm-6am followed by going straight to the field to do custom field work. Got to nap in truck for couple hours and I worked off line and had a radio so I would go to office and nap in between calls. Never went home wore same clothes during that time period. It was at that point I knew something was going to give and getting fired was not an option so the following year left on good terms and went back to farming full time.

So I disagree, long hours and tough do go together.

 

[OzarkChris]

I hear you but MossRoad has those figures on farm incomes. You don't think his info is legit?

No, not at all. I've seen other things like that from the USDA. All legit. I was just stating that big city folk seem to think that farmers just grab one of them $0.99 packs of seeds, throw the seed in the air and sit back & wait to collect a check. As a couple have stated earlier fertilizer has gone up to over $1,000/ton, seed, lime, fuel and expendables are all up too. And you need these regardless if you farm/ranch animal or non-animal. Overhead for farmers/ranchers is much higher than most city folks realize.

Most big city folk would be completely mortified if you told them you might get a day off sometime next year or that most days you'd be working sun up to sun down plus some 7 days a week 365 days a year. Look at today, I've already been out for 3hrs (its 0715) - came in for a warm cup 'o joe and a bite to eat. I am not complaining, I choose to do this and realize this isn't for everyone. Thankfully I have my military retirement pay so I'm not hurting as much as some are out here.

 

[Snobdds]

I don't care what ag industry your in or what part of the country/world your from it is never going to be easy street. We go over approx 260 acres of hay ground selling to locals. 2020 was our best year ever and 2021 was our worst. I'm really hoping this year is somewhere in the middle. If I told you the volume we were getting off our fields you would think it should have been our best year but mother nature had other plans. I still have first cutting standing in a field that was just to wet to get to. In total there is about 40 acres of different cuttings still standing we never got to, customers orders that were never filled, and lots of low quality baleage that will be a tough sell that should have been put up in small squares through out the summer.

My final year in the factory I worked 48+ straight hours. I worked 3rd shift 6pm-6am followed by going straight to the field to do custom field work. Got to nap in truck for couple hours and I worked off line and had a radio so I would go to office and nap in between calls. Never went home wore same clothes during that time period. It was at that point I knew something was going to give and getting fired was not an option so the following year left on good terms and went back to farming full time.

So I disagree, long hours and tough do go together.

Long hours and tough work are mutually exclusive. One is not dependent upon the other. However, there are always cases that involve both, but to associate the two as equal is disingenuous to both.

 

[Snobdds]

So you're the real John Dutton?

Who is john dutton?

 

[sree251]

Most big city folk would be completely mortified if you told them you might get a day off sometime next year or that most days you'd be working sun up to sun down plus some 7 days a week 365 days a year. Look at today, I've already been out for 3hrs (its 0715) - came in for a warm cup 'o joe and a bite to eat. I am not complaining, I choose to do this and realize this isn't for everyone. Thankfully I have my military retirement pay so I'm not hurting as much as some are out here.

I don't doubt the hard work farmers have to do. What I doubt are the USDA farm income levels. Farmers have weather-beaten faces that don't go together with half a million dollar a year incomes and splurge on guns with thousand dollar triggers. Hardworking folks are naturally frugal.

What made you choose a life as a farmer after retiring from the military? You must have an affinity for farming. Did you grow up on a farm?

 

[JDZ735M]

It's unbelievable that people who aren't actively involved in agriculture will argue with those who are that it isn't hard, worthwhile work.

 

[sree251]

It's unbelievable that people who aren't actively involved in agriculture will argue with those who are that it isn't hard, worthwhile work.

You talking to me? Who is arguing with farmers that farming isn't hard work? I believe most farmers are born into that life and that's the only thing they want to do. It's seldom a matter of choice.

 

[Snobdds]

You talking to me? Who is arguing with farmers that farming isn't hard work? I believe most farmers are born into that life and that's the only thing they want to do. It's seldom a matter of choice.

No, he's talking to me. He must be confusing me with a farmer, which I am not.

 

[OzarkChris]

What I doubt are the USDA farm income levels. Farmers have weather-beaten faces that don't go together with half a million dollar a year incomes and splurge on guns with thousand dollar triggers. Hardworking folks are naturally frugal.

The million dollar farms are large corporate farms. Think Dole, etc for veggies, Tyson, etc for animal.

Also, I don't recall if the article stated if that "income" was gross or not. Again, overhead, capital expenses, etc are much higher than a what a tech company has - especially now that most techies are "working" from home.

 

[sree251]

The million dollar farms are large corporate farms. Think Dole, etc for veggies, Tyson, etc for animal.

Also, I don't recall if the article stated if that "income" was gross or not. Again, overhead, capital expenses, etc are much higher than a what a tech company has - especially now that most techies are "working" from home.

Now, it makes sense. Thanks for clarifying.

 

[JethroB]

In the southern peanut growing areas like here you mostly see 5-6 foot round bales of peanut hay. The dried vines are baled after the peanuts have been picked from them in early fall. Fed to cows as I don’t expect horses would have much interest.
My BIL once baled cotton stalks for a few years as sort of an experiment. He said the cows would browse on it but weren’t thrilled.

 

[CobyRupert]

Around here the number of diary farmers has drastically shrunk. Farm acreage has probably stayed consistent. To me, this means the margins are thinner. As a kid I remember the 35 cow dairy farms, with one or two tractors that supported a family of six, and mom stayed home. Now a 100 cow farm is a small struggling operation and wife has second income.
Now, it takes more cows and more land to support that same farm family. Smaller margins, means consolidation, with only the bigger farms having the capital or the credit to expand into a mechanized, diesel dependent industrialized trucking and equipment operation that can do more with fewer people. Most farms now, the cogs, err cows, never sees a green pasture.
I guess efficiency is good for some people, bad for others.

 

[JethroB]

The million dollar farms are large corporate farms. Think Dole, etc for veggies, Tyson, etc for animal.

Also, I don't recall if the article stated if that "income" was gross or not. Again, overhead, capital expenses, etc are much higher than a what a tech company has - especially now that most techies are "working" from home.

Most USDA classified “farms” here are probably under 200 acres, some a result of much larger farms being split up by inheritance over several generations with many being sold off. Most of the owners don’t farm but rent or lease out their land to nearby true dirt farmers for growing row crops. Mostly cotton and peanuts. Lots of timber too, loblolly & slash pines but with a increasing amount of long leaf pines being planted.