Hay Farmers getting out of farming

[Hay Dude]

What's the typical minimum tonnage and quality a broker would consider? I'm getting enough land owners wanting me to cut I can't store, let alone market it, so loading it on a truck sounds great to me.

Not really sure. My broker would come pick up 10 acres-worth in a heartbeat. He’d show up with a long flatbed and a couple workers and pick the whole field up in an hour.
If handling and storage is your Achilles heel, a broker is a great alternative. One thing they will do is beat you up on price-gotta fight back.
Brokers are usually guys with very large hay barns that quit growing and would rather handle & sell hay.

 

[Cycledude]

Boy those are some revealing statements you made and I cant overemphasize how hard hitting your post is. The last paragraph in bold really hits home with a few of us in my area, especially with small bales and round bales. I hope your situation resolves itself in a positive way. Really sorry to hear about your dad. Lost mine in similar way.

Fair is fair. We live in a capitalist society and competition is king. With that being said, the small squares business is almost impossible with smaller/hobby guys selling a few hundred to a few thousand bales a year out of a small operation barn for, like you said, $4.50/bale.
Everyone knows the typical 1-3 horse owning crowd is themselves, usually strapped for money and pays the lowest price they can for hay. Thats 100’s of thousands of buyers across the country all flocking to the guys who make hay at a loss because its “fun”. They are not really in it for the money. They are in it for the satisfaction it gives them. Nobody can argue with them or what theyre doing.
It would be like an excavating company competing with a guy who excavates part time with a mini ex for $50/hour for fun/relaxation And the excavating business has $100/hour in overhead and salaries for employees.
Thats why I changed my business model from 100% feed hay, to 20% feed hay and 80% mushroom hay. I cant compete with the guys doing it for a hobby at $4.50/bale. What I CAN do that they cant is TONNAGE. I also found ways to use the equipment for other work- mainly mowing and some limited snow plowing.
There have been times in the past where I think I should use my CDL and drive a tractor trailer to haul my hay and haul for others to make more money that way, but trucking isnt really a much better proposition than farming right now.
With input prices (fuel & fertilizer the worst) being as high as they are, I think we are at/past the breaking point. Good feed hay bales should be selling for $12-$15/bale to make a decent living off making hay. I know I’ll be savaged for saying that, but I dont care. Why does a hay farmer, performing a valuable service, have to endure such low pay for the risks. Until the hobby guys all realize their hay is worth north of $10/bale, feed hay producers will have to keep prices UNDER cost to produce. Thats a losing proposition.

You may want to start thinking about mushroom hay. I dont know if you have the demand for it up there OR if you can drive it 5 hours across PA to where demand for it is high. I DO see trucks in the yard from VA and NY, so there are hay farmers doing it now.

I dont know if you’d be open to it, but do you have CDL and can you afford a hay truck and 50’ trailer? Can you ramp up production to make ~1000 tons of mushroom hay, dropping the costs of constant herbicide spraying and fertilizing? This will cut your overhead and allow cash flow for the trucking costs. Costs more to make quality hay, but if you are competing at $4.50, you might as well forget about it.
Maybe you can make connections locally for fertilizing with any poultry litter or even composted leaves that are available? When you buy tractor trailer, buy an old dump trailer. Pick up any kind of compost material at their farm and spread on your fields?

What is this “mushroom hay” your talking about ?
I’ve heard plenty about growing mushrooms but this is the first time I ever heard of mushroom hay.

 

[ddbackhoe]

What's the typical minimum tonnage and quality a broker would consider? I'm getting enough land owners wanting me to cut I can't store, let alone market it, so loading it on a truck sounds great to me.

One thing we are in discussion on too. For our larger customer barns, a years supply going straight from field to them. Would it make life easier/more profitable? Getting the boarding barns to change their mindset about using small vs. large squares?

 

[Hay Dude]

What is this “mushroom hay” your talking about ?
I’ve heard plenty about growing mushrooms but this is the first time I ever heard of mushroom hay.

Hay is used as one ingredient, along with poultry/horse litter, lime, water and a few other ingredients to make the soil to grow mushrooms in. We also have plants that manufacture custom soils and hay is an ingredient. I live fairly close to “the Mushroom Capital of the World” (Avondale/Kennett Square) or I wouldnt be doing hay this way.

 

[sea2summit]

One thing we are in discussion on too. For our larger customer barns, a years supply going straight from field to them. Would it make life easier/more profitable? Getting the boarding barns to change their mindset about using small vs. large squares?

I'm in the small square market because near me the market is screaming for them...if they are good. Lots of folks round baling crap hay for cows and maybe some better stuff but quality small squares are gone pretty quick, I've been sold out since mid December. Horse folks and goat folks all use small squares around here minus a very few that have horses out on pasture. I don't think I've seen a large square baler anywhere near me, maybe closer to the coast there could be.

 

[sree251]

I believe I'm an "Anyone" and I Have traveled/lived extensively abroad - not just for a holiday. I'm not bragging, but I've probably been in 2 dozen or more countries. Including the Far East, Middle East, Europe, Africa and the Americas.. From Vietnam to Frankfurt, from Moscow to Bombay (Mumbai) and from Nome (AK) to South of Panama and many others. In my experiences, folks in these areas really do like the US more than those that don't. Typically those that you claim to be a champion for, are the ones that like us the most. These folks have the first hand experiences of Socialism, Marxism, Dictatorial regimes, etc and would love to be able to do something as simple as sharing/stating their opinion. They understand what it's like to not have food, property, basic rights, etc.

Not sure where you are getting your information, but in real life, that information is wrong!

Really, Chris? You met a lot of people all over the world? I don't doubt that one bit. I traveled and lived abroad also but not as an armed US military personnel. Were you able to get out of your American soldier mindset let alone your American mindset to relate with folks embedded in other cultures? Americans abroad rarely live outside the expat ghetto. There is a certain kind of American who can go native as that "Dances With Wolves" character played by Kevin Costner. I doubt even Anthony Boudain who went everywhere eating the garbage food in every nook and corner of the world could get an honest foreigner's viewpoint of America. If we Americans ever understood anyone outside US borders, how come our State Department experts have gotten our foreign policies so wrong since forever! We screwed up from Vietnam to Afghanistan. People like us? The only time people liked us was right after WW2. They loved us! I have two rifles (WW2 vintage left to me by my grandfather who fought in the Pacific and participated in the implementation of the Marshall Plan) above my fireplace commemorating that long lost love.

 

[Hay Dude]

One thing we are in discussion on too. (1) For our larger customer barns, a years supply going straight from field to them. Would it make life easier/more profitable? (2) Getting the boarding barns to change their mindset about using small vs. large squares?

Those seem like 2 separate issues. If you have a customer with large barn, it would be cheaper to take hay bales directly from field to him in your wagons, IF the hay has sweat and is cured for storage. Thats a big IF.
I did the second option. I let go of small square customers that wouldnt change to big bales. I showed them all the $1000 outlay for a Hay Hut would pay off in XXX time by purchasing big bales. Most like the bales outside in a covered feeder and NO handling of hay. Makes both our lives easier. Some went along, others stay with little squares.
Loading small squares and off loading them into barns is a difficult way to make a living. I did it and have shoulder bursa and rotator pain. Couldn’t find any help. Customers always wanted it on weekends so they could “supervise” ( aka get in the way) Screw that. Big bales has worked for me, but it was also a big step up in equipment and acreage

 

[Hay Dude]

I'm in the small square market because near me the market is screaming for them...if they are good. Lots of folks round baling crap hay for cows and maybe some better stuff but quality small squares are gone pretty quick, I've been sold out since mid December. Horse folks and goat folks all use small squares around here minus a very few that have horses out on pasture. I don't think I've seen a large square baler anywhere near me, maybe closer to the coast there could be.

I know you think its crazy, but if you are set up to store a lot of squares, store them until supplies are at their low point in your area THEN sell them. Let all the little guys sell out at $4.50/bale FIRST. You can probably get 1-2 bucks more per bale. OR tell your customers theres a storage fee for pre-purchased hay? You gotta try ways of adding value to your services. Remember, you arent just baling hay, you are storing it and you are delivering it. Most, not all, horse people want the hay delivered and stacked in their barns for next to nothing extra for your bale price.
But I dont know your operation. Up north, the colder it gets, the higher the price (usually).

 

[sea2summit]

I know you think its crazy, but if you are set up to store a lot of squares, store them until supplies are at their low point in your area THEN sell them. You can probably get 1-2 bucks more per bale. OR tell your customers theres a storage fee for pre-purchased hay? You gotta try ways of adding value to your services. Remember, you arent just baling hay, you are storing it and you are delivering it. Most, not all, horse people want the hay delivered and stacked in their barns for next to nothing extra for your bale price.
But I dont know your operation. Up north, the colder it gets, the higher the price (usually).

The complication, accidental coincidence, and whacky business model of my current hay operation could be it's own thread. Bottom line is right now every square foot of roof and field I use is bartered/traded for or leased.

 

[Hay Dude]

I took a big chance and sold my round baler. Im done with round bales-for now. Have (2) large square balers. One of them can make a shorter bale that will fit in a hay hut, like a round bale did. That allows me to have one less baler and tractor to pull it with. After loading 1500 round bales on trailers per year, I learned how old that gets, too. Large Square bales are a dream to stack, load and truck.
If it dont work out, I can always go back.