Branson 4720h Engine replacing rings

[bobmisi]

I get my parts from Cummins with no problems. I would say the prices are average for todays world.

 

[Bob Nelson]

Can you tell me exactly where your supply is and their name and phone number or address? It would be greatly appreciated!

 

[IH3444]

2900 hours. You sure you need pistons. Maybe just a cylinder honing, new rings, and a valve job. I'm not a grind the valve believer, but in your case I would to save money. Check the bottom end for bearing clearance, and new rod bearing for sure if the crankshaft mics out good. This is why you use good quality oil, and change it regularly. These diesel engines are usually good for 10,000 hours. Post some pictures of your pistons when you get them out.

 

[Bob Nelson]

2900 hours. You sure you need pistons. Maybe just a cylinder honing, new rings, and a valve job. I'm not a grind the valve believer, but in your case I would to save money. Check the bottom end for bearing clearance, and new rod bearing for sure if the crankshaft mics out good. This is why you use good quality oil, and change it regularly. These diesel engines are usually good for 10,000 hours. Post some pictures of your pistons when you get them out.

Yes. I bought the tractor at a very good price. The dealership was not a Branson but I have purchased used stuff from him before. He sold the tractor as is and I drove it all around for 1/2 hour. Lots of smoke, but everything worked as it should. It actually surprised me as the thing was just full of dirt up to the dashboard and packed everywhere. He thought it had sucked some dirt. No leaks.

So, I have the head off and mic'd the bores and you are right, the bores, top and bottom are within specs to just be honed. I am taking the pistons out today. A local shop will do the head for $275, clean, valve grind, etc. Unless it needs guides, etc.

 

[IH3444]

Branson tractors have a stellar reputation. Looks like this one was just rode hard, and not taken care of. The cylinders mic-ed out good, so a top notch piston clean up, cylinder honing, and new piston rings should get you back up and running well. I would still mic the crankshaft to be sure its OK, do a micro polish of the journals, and install new rod bearings, as well as mains if you will go that far. Disassemble the oil pump and check it for wear, and backlash.

 

[Bob Nelson]

I would do those things, but I'm doing an "in frame" job. I don't want to pull the engine. I will plastigauge it, though.

 

[Bob Nelson]

Got the piston out of the worst cylinder compression wise. It had 240PSI. The manual says 495. The top ring is broken and the second compression ring has little spring to it.

 

[LouNY]

That will ruin the compression for sure,
the most common reason I've seen for broken rings in a diesel has been starting fluid.

 

[sd455dan]

Yep. looks like it also pounded top ring land out of the piston

1 New piston for that hole needed for sure.

 

[IH3444]

Rod bearing insert worn down to the copper. Looks to be dry started with too much starting ether, and bearings were dry on harsh startup in dead of winter before oil got to the bearing. This is where full synthetic good quality oil shines. Cold winter start ups, synthetic oils flow better and quicker. They also have a better clinging to the metal surface ability. Most likely a regular 15w-40 oil was used, instead of a better suited for cold winter full synthetic 5w-40, like Rotella T6 5w-40.

 

[Bob Nelson]

I am not removing the engine and I think I will be OK. I was able to just push the piston out of the block with very little resistance. Mic'd the cylinders and am OK there. The second piston I could not get out as I will need a ridge reamer. But this first journal looks perfect. The softer bearing seems to have absorped the brunt of it all.

I am surprised that this cylinder had any compression at all. When attempting starting, it put out a ton of white smoke. So, originally I went through the injectors and found at least on bad one. A couple were OK. One bad glow plug. So, it seems that this cylinder was barely working when hot perhaps just enough expansion to get combustion?

I am thinking of just getting an entire rebuild kit: 4 pistons, rings, bearings. Replacing all rod bearings, examining the mains. Only the center mains are accessable. 1 and 5 are buried under the upper section of the block extension. Not doing that. The tractor actually seemed to have good oil pressure.

Do anyone of you know if the piston pins/sleeves need machining when new? These are full floating pins.

 

[IH3444]

Replaced my IH3444 BD154 main bearings replacement in frame like this.

 

[Calgaryglenn]

A chinese rebuild kit is in the 500$ range vs well over $2,000 with Branson. $230 for one fuel injector. Unbelieveable.

Every where I look at rebuild kits for nearly every other brand the prices are similar vs Chinese. The tractor is great, but this kind of pricing makes owning one long term unlikely. I have owned Ford, NH, Kubota, Deere, etc, etc. Never saw anything like this.

The farmer who rents my land has a Deere 400hp 4WD. It started to miss fire last fall and it required 2 injectors. The total cost parts and labor $4200.
It's nuts!

 

[Mattmotors]

The farmer who rents my land has a Deere 400hp 4WD. It started to miss fire last fall and it required 2 injectors. The total cost parts and labor $4200.
It's nuts!

The stater motor in my 2019 Yamaha 20 hp retails for around $700.00. I only paid around $3800 for it new.

 

[all x]

I am looking to replace possibly some pistons and rings in my 4720h. I contacted 2 different dealers and found the price for a set of rings on ONE cylinder at approximately $250. Read that $1,000 for a set of rings for all 4 cylinders. Pistons were about $230 each.
I have never heard if these kinds of prices. I am looking at trying out Chinese parts at these prices. Just ridiculous.
Anyone have ideas on other sources or ideas?

Piston production Hungary – English – belcord.hu

belcord.hu

 

[Sawyer Rob]

As far as some of the Branson engines being Cummins I would be a bit dubious.
I seem to recall that that was actually an Onan engine that Cummins acquired with Onan.
I do know that my engine has nothing in common with any Cummins that I have found.
Mine is a DT3400T-ATAC which is a 208 cu. in. or 3409 cc.

Yeaaa, it's really a Kohler design that became Onan and then Onan was bought by Cummins, so now many make themselves feel better, calling it a Cummins.

SR

 

[Bob Nelson]

Well, at $1,200 for a set of rings. Add some pistons and gaskets and may as well buy a rebuilt engine.

You read that correct $294/per cylinder, I am going to order the Chinese stuff. Looks identical. Good reviews. We shall see...

 

[Slowpoke Slim]

Yeaaa, it's really a Kohler design that became Onan and then Onan was bought by Cummins, so now many make themselves feel better, calling it a Cummins.

SR

I guess it depends if you want to order parts or not. Has nothing to do with that gibberish you said.

When you go into a diesel repair shop, the useful thing to say is you are looking for part for the Cummins engine, give them the series number, and tell them what parts you need. You can also say the same thing for the Onan engine, if you know what the original series number was. Problem with that is they have not been "Onan" for long enough the parts look up will be more difficult for the parts guy. It would also be helpful if you brought in the part your trying to replace, just to check it against the new one and make sure the cross over part number was correct in the book.

It comes down to whether or not you're trying to repair a tractor, or if you're just flexing and preening on an internet forum.

Your extra gibberish and who designed what is completely irrelevent to the search for parts.

But whatever you need to make yourself feel better. I knew the trolls would show up sooner or later.

 

[Sawyer Rob]

I guess it depends if you want to order parts or not. Has nothing to do with that gibberish you said.

It comes down to whether or not you're trying to repair a tractor, or if you're just flexing and preening on an internet forum.

Your extra gibberish and who designed what is completely irrelevent to the search for parts.

But whatever you need to make yourself feel better. I knew the trolls would show up sooner or later.

The gibberish I've read here in TBN is, the zillion times I've read, buy a Branson because it's Cumming powered... (or something similar)

Now, that's the "feel good" gibberish I keep reading...

SR

 

[Fixastuff]

I guess it depends if you want to order parts or not. Has nothing to do with that gibberish you said.

When you go into a diesel repair shop, the useful thing to say is you are looking for part for the Cummins engine, give them the series number, and tell them what parts you need.

I knew the trolls would show up sooner or later.

@Bob Nelson did you have any luck with getting Cummins parts that work in your Branson?

Not sure if I'm a troll or not but I never got a Cummins place to work with me on kukje stuff and I'm usually pretty good at finding parts.