Brake reservoir full but no pedal

480Fman · Jun 6, 2022

Just picked up this Case 480F and was told a brake line was leaking. If a brake line is leaking wouldnt you have a low reservoir? I Finally got the covers off and looked and both were totally full, but i have no brakes or any pedal. Anyone have a clue what might cause this. Another note, who ever designed this brake reservoir location and the way in which the covers are held down should have their head examined... What a joke. I wasnt about to pull the whole dash out, so i cut a access panel in the side of the dash and will put a piano type hinge and a lock to keep it shut. Meanwhile, besides the brakes and alot of the wiring, she runs awesome. Rebuilt one dump cylinder and replaced 4 hoses and now im onto the brakes and wiring. Also repaired the Hour meter since a new one is 2100 bucks. I hope someone out there can give me some input on the brakes. You tube tells you nothing really.

LouNY · Jun 6, 2022

Good luck with those brakes.
I don't recall if the F series had the band brakes or the expanding disk brakes.
You are going to have a slave cylinder at each brake that when activated will pull on a toggle type linkage to apply the brakes.
If (when) the toggle or the linkages get worn the brakes will not work good even with new bands or disc's.
They are going to be under the floor boards on the bull gear pinions.

Roadworthy · Jun 6, 2022

If you have or had a leaky line you may have air in the system. You may wish to start by bleeding the brakes. If that doesn't do it and Lou's suggestions don't work you may need to overhaul or replace the master cylinder. You could have an internal bypass leak.

DJ54 · Jun 7, 2022

Here is a link to Case Construction for the 480F. Case construction king loader backhoe | Case CE | MyCNHi US Store Scroll down, and find the brake category, and it will show views of the components of the brake system.

I have a 480C, and remember when redoing brakes on mine, I remember reading on later series, master cylinders used hydraulic oil, not brake fluid. If brake fluid is used, instead of hydraulic oil, it can damage the master cylinders. On my 480C, one brake line was rusted through, but the other was good. It also had very good pedal, yet no braking action. I bought 2 new aftermarket master cylinders through Joseph Industries :Remanufactured Transmissions, Torque Converters, Engines - Joseph Industries , which eliminated part of the problem. They were the least expensive that I could find at the time. This was in 2012, and they still work great, so they are decent parts.

I also got new slave cylinders from them. At the time, only a few more dollars, than what most wanted for a rebuild kit. I also installed new brake lines, but opted to make my own from NiCopp line, as Case wanted $75 each for preformed lines.

Beyond that, on my 310B, the model I had before that, the bull pinion shaft seal was out on both sides, and had the brake discs soaked with SAE 90, making them pretty well useless. An old Case mechanic showed me how to "boil" the oil out of the brake discs, saving buying new ones. Simply hung them up outside, and took a propane torch to them, and literally boiled the oil out of them. Being they were bonded type discs, I was afraid it would break the bonding, but he assured me it would not. Worked like a charm. I could not believe the amount of oil that came out of them. Let them cool, and did a final cleanup with brake cleaner. Buffed with a Roloc medium gasket removal disc, to rough it up a bit. Made a world of difference, and would actually lock up the wheel, if enough pressure was applied to the pedal.

If those seals are bad, you can tell by looking at the bottom of the brake chamber housing. If there are drops of oil hanging below the housing, where it bolts to the transmission housing, the seals are bad. If there is no sign of oil, still might be worth pulling the brake housings, as a lot of dust, and dirt/silt can get in there, and keep it from functioning right. I also bought new 1" balls from Joseph Ind., as mine were rusted/pitted beyond cleaning up. I see now, those ball bearings are now $13.58 through Case/IG Ag., probably more through Case Construction. At the time Case Construction was 10%+ higher on the same part, through Case/IH Ag.

Using the above link to Case Construction, find the part number of anything you need, copy, and paste Google to search for aftermarket parts. You can find the Case Construction dealer price, by selecting a local dealer. I assure you, you'll be shocked at some of the prices. Joseph Industries had all the parts I needed in stock, and were shipped/received promptly. Fortunately, I'm only 90 miles from them, and anything I ordered by 10:00 a.m., was on my porch the next afternoon, by 2:00 p.m.

The last time I ordered from there, I spoke with a woman, and she knows her stuff. Give her the OEM part number, and she'll have it on it's way in short order. You can shop online, and compare, but imagine they still have the best prices out there.

Williy · Jun 7, 2022

Best thing to do is get a parts list for your tractor
then you know where all parts etc are and if you
need a part you have the part number.

willy

480Fman · Jun 7, 2022

Thank you all for your comments and information. When the weathers better i will go a little further with it but the rains holding me up.

480Fman · Jun 7, 2022

Looking at the brake schematics, it almost like the brake master cylinders collect its fluid right from the hydraulic system. Does that sound right?

Williy · Jun 7, 2022

Best thing to do is get a parts list for your tractor
then you know where all parts etc are and if you
need a part you have the part number.

willy

DJ54 · Jun 8, 2022

480Fman said:
Looking at the brake schematics, it almost like the brake master cylinders collect its fluid right from the hydraulic system. Does that sound right?

To be honest, I never looked at all of the schematics, but it is a lot different set up than my 480C. Personally, if it were me, I'd be getting a shop/service manual. I have one for mine, which is an OEM manual. It's like 4" thick, and covers every repair on the machine. They are well written, and very descriptive in repair procedures, and have actual pictures of components. Worth their weight in gold when doing repairs.

I got mine off ebay, I took the liberty of doing a search for the 480F manuals on ebay. There's more than several service manuals listed. Some are OEM originals, and a couple reprints. I prefer OEM originals, due to some reprint quality, but there is a pretty good deal on a reprint. If you decide to purchase one, let your conscience be your guide, whether to spend another $50 more on an OEM manual. Mine had a few smudges from being used in the shop, but nothing bad enough to cover any wording, or pics. I've probably added a few to it myself.

Here's a link to ebay, and the 480F manuals up for sale. case 480f backhoe in Heavy Equipment Manuals & Books: Search Result | eBay

480Fman · Jul 9, 2022

LouNY said:
Good luck with those brakes.
I don't recall if the F series had the band brakes or the expanding disk brakes.
You are going to have a slave cylinder at each brake that when activated will pull on a toggle type linkage to apply the brakes.
If (when) the toggle or the linkages get worn the brakes will not work good even with new bands or disc's.
They are going to be under the floor boards on the bull gear pinions.

Yeah i had to tear out the floor which was not a fun job because of the rust and the cab being there. Now ive replaced the left line and will fire it up to see if i can get the brakes bled. Dont ever want to replace these lines again. What a pain the ass. New york winters have not been good to this tractor

480Fman · Jul 9, 2022

DJ54 said:
To be honest, I never looked at all of the schematics, but it is a lot different set up than my 480C. Personally, if it were me, I'd be getting a shop/service manual. I have one for mine, which is an OEM manual. It's like 4" thick, and covers every repair on the machine. They are well written, and very descriptive in repair procedures, and have actual pictures of components. Worth their weight in gold when doing repairs.

I got mine off ebay, I took the liberty of doing a search for the 480F manuals on ebay. There's more than several service manuals listed. Some are OEM originals, and a couple reprints. I prefer OEM originals, due to some reprint quality, but there is a pretty good deal on a reprint. If you decide to purchase one, let your conscience be your guide, whether to spend another $50 more on an OEM manual. Mine had a few smudges from being used in the shop, but nothing bad enough to cover any wording, or pics. I've probably added a few to it myself.

Here's a link to ebay, and the 480F manuals up for sale. case 480f backhoe in Heavy Equipment Manuals & Books: Search Result | eBay

Yeah i thought i bought a damn manual and it ended up being a PDF file. Was pretty bummed. Would definitely rather have the paper version

DJ54 · Jul 10, 2022

I used the NiCopp line on mine. It's been 10 years, and still work good. Hopefully bleeding the brakes will fix your problem. If the bull pinion seals are leaking, and have the brakes oily, that is quite another project. Mine just has the ROPS on it, the left side I could get from on top, with the floor panel removed. I took the ROPS off to get to the right side, as I could not fir myself, between the front corner post, and the fender. Better than laying on my back, and working from underneath.

The PO of mine cleaned a lot of parking lots with this one, and apparently was in a lot of salt. Lots of rusty bolts, and brake lines rusted through. Plus, lots of sediment worked into the brake housings. Took a lot of heat, and penetrate to get things apart, and working again. Lots of Never Seize applied here, there, and yon'. Even had the differential lock shaft rusted enough to not move. Got it freed up, and still works as it should.

Mine was a winter project, thank goodness for a roomy heated shop.

ROUSTABOUT · Jul 10, 2022

480Fman said:
Just picked up this Case 480F and was told a brake line was leaking. If a brake line is leaking wouldnt you have a low reservoir? I Finally got the covers off and looked and both were totally full, but i have no brakes or any pedal. Anyone have a clue what might cause this. Another note, who ever designed this brake reservoir location and the way in which the covers are held down should have their head examined... What a joke. I wasnt about to pull the whole dash out, so i cut a access panel in the side of the dash and will put a piano type hinge and a lock to keep it shut. Meanwhile, besides the brakes and alot of the wiring, she runs awesome. Rebuilt one dump cylinder and replaced 4 hoses and now im onto the brakes and wiring. Also repaired the Hour meter since a new one is 2100 bucks. I hope someone out there can give me some input on the brakes. You tube tells you nothing really.

No you would not have a low reservoir. If you pump pedal 50 times it may get low.

We have a big NH cab tractor with mineral oil based brake fluid. Empty every time you want to use it. Buy brake fluid by the case. I know we should fix, but there is no fix. Only the same stuff. And I ain't splitting no cab tractor unless I'm sure to fix it.

I will put a clutch in, no problem. But I know a new clutch will fix a bad clutch. But I ain't too sure about this brake deal. We just live with it for now. If you use it daily it don't leak as bad. But it sits except for doing hay this time of year. 113 heat index yesterday. Fill it and bleed it. We have gotten good at it.

I got that cab tractor because my Doo dad is 74 years old now. We spent years together building houses mostly. He's a hard worker still. But, he be having skin cancer problems from all them years on a new slab framing something up. So I want him inside in that AC. I never use that tractor unless he wants me to move it out of the way. Plus, he likes to spray chemicals.

480Fman · Jul 10, 2022

Yeah Roustabout. Im learning alot as i go. I do know one thing. Changing a simple brake line is a royal pain in the ass....lol. It took be nearly 5 hours just trying to get to the line nuts and getting them loose and off. I actually ended up cutting the damn lines . Went to Auto zone and bought at 6 ft section of steel line and spent another 2 hrs trying to get the nuts in position to get started. There is literally no room. Im not happy with the line i bought though because even using a tubing bender, it still started to kink. Was able to save it though and finally get it hooked up without using the rubber line that was connected to the slave cylinder. Another fun job was bleeding the brakes by myself. Since i had the floor out i used my left forearm to pump the brakes and my right hand to loosen and tighten the bleeder. Guess what, I have god damn brakes....woooohoooo. They still werent the best so i checked on how to adjust the brakes and did that by feel. I couldnt lift the tractor and do it the right way, so im praying that worked. If i have to do this job again i hope its not to soon. What a pain.

480Fman · Jul 10, 2022

DJ54 said:
I used the NiCopp line on mine. It's been 10 years, and still work good. Hopefully bleeding the brakes will fix your problem. If the bull pinion seals are leaking, and have the brakes oily, that is quite another project. Mine just has the ROPS on it, the left side I could get from on top, with the floor panel removed. I took the ROPS off to get to the right side, as I could not fir myself, between the front corner post, and the fender. Better than laying on my back, and working from underneath.

The PO of mine cleaned a lot of parking lots with this one, and apparently was in a lot of salt. Lots of rusty bolts, and brake lines rusted through. Plus, lots of sediment worked into the brake housings. Took a lot of heat, and penetrate to get things apart, and working again. Lots of Never Seize applied here, there, and yon'. Even had the differential lock shaft rusted enough to not move. Got it freed up, and still works as it should.

Mine was a winter project, thank goodness for a roomy heated shop.

I wish i was that fortunate to be able to wait, but i need my tractor for pushing snow. I finally after busting my ass, sweating my balls off and swearing every curse word under the sun got the line replaced and my brakes now work. Not a job i ever want to do again because there is just no room under there to work. I think i found out my back can contort in many different positions and i already have a bad back....lol

480Fman · Jul 10, 2022

480Fman said:
Just picked up this Case 480F and was told a brake line was leaking. If a brake line is leaking wouldnt you have a low reservoir? I Finally got the covers off and looked and both were totally full, but i have no brakes or any pedal. Anyone have a clue what might cause this. Another note, who ever designed this brake reservoir location and the way in which the covers are held down should have their head examined... What a joke. I wasnt about to pull the whole dash out, so i cut a access panel in the side of the dash and will put a piano type hinge and a lock to keep it shut. Meanwhile, besides the brakes and alot of the wiring, she runs awesome. Rebuilt one dump cylinder and replaced 4 hoses and now im onto the brakes and wiring. Also repaired the Hour meter since a new one is 2100 bucks. I hope someone out there can give me some input on the brakes. You tube tells you nothing really.

DonRybak · Jul 10, 2022

480Fman, glad you got it fixed. You mentioned the issue having to bleed the brakes by yourself. it's a little late now but they make bleeder vales for a one man operation. I used them on motorcycles I owned in the past. Seems like they were called speed bleeders but not positive. They are like one way schrader valves where when you press down to eject fluid it opens to let the fluid drain then an internal ball valve closes to keep air from re-entering the system. Once the air bubbles are gone just tighten it up like a normal bleeder valve. I always ordered them by make and model of my bikes but they had them for cars too. I imagine you could order them by thread type and length.

Williy · Jul 12, 2022

ROUSTABOUT said:
No you would not have a low reservoir. If you pump pedal 50 times it may get low.

We have a big NH cab tractor with mineral oil based brake fluid. Empty every time you want to use it. Buy brake fluid by the case. I know we should fix, but there is no fix. Only the same stuff. And I ain't splitting no cab tractor unless I'm sure to fix it.

I will put a clutch in, no problem. But I know a new clutch will fix a bad clutch. But I ain't too sure about this brake deal. We just live with it for now. If you use it daily it don't leak as bad. But it sits except for doing hay this time of year. 113 heat index yesterday. Fill it and bleed it. We have gotten good at it.

I got that cab tractor because my Doo dad is 74 years old now. We spent years together building houses mostly. He's a hard worker still. But, he be having skin cancer problems from all them years on a new slab framing something up. So I want him inside in that AC. I never use that tractor unless he wants me to move it out of the way. Plus, he likes to spray chemicals.

Have your dad wash his skin cancer with baking soda
solution to see if that will help!

willy

carlens.la · Jul 23, 2022

480Fman said:
Just picked up this Case 480F and was told a brake line was leaking. If a brake line is leaking wouldnt you have a low reservoir? I Finally got the covers off and looked and both were totally full, but i have no brakes or any pedal. Anyone have a clue what might cause this. Another note, who ever designed this brake reservoir location and the way in which the covers are held down should have their head examined... What a joke. I wasnt about to pull the whole dash out, so i cut a access panel in the side of the dash and will put a piano type hinge and a lock to keep it shut. Meanwhile, besides the brakes and alot of the wiring, she runs awesome. Rebuilt one dump cylinder and replaced 4 hoses and now im onto the brakes and wiring. Also repaired the Hour meter since a new one is 2100 bucks. I hope someone out there can give me some input on the brakes. You tube tells you nothing really.

You may wish to start by bleeding the brakes. If that doesn't do it and Lou's suggestions don't work you may need to overhaul or replace the master cylinder.

Speed Test