Total noob. Mowing with Toolcat on a hill vs Ventrac vs Kubota L3902

[MossRoad]

OP,

What’s your budget?

As others have mentioned, if you’re concerned about slopes, take a look at PowerTrac as you also look at other machines, just to get an idea of what they offer. They make several different sizes of machines, and two slope mowers that are rated at 40 and 45 degrees (45 degrees = 100% slope!).

The nice thing about the PowerTrac design is that not only is it a mower, but it is a front end loader/tool carrier. Everything is mounted out front where you can see it. They have a great quick attach system that allows you to swap non-powered implements in 15 seconds without getting off the seat. Powered implements requires the operator to get off the seat and change a few hydraulic hoses, so that adds a few seconds. All powered implements are powered by hydraulics, not PTO shafts.

There are over 40 attachments available, from mower, brush cutters, stump grinders, snow removal equipment, several buckets, grapples, 4-in-1 buckets, brooms, forks, etc.

Anyhow, if you want a multi-purpose machine, I think the PT design is better than the Ventrac design. I think the Ventrac is a better mower, but the PT is a better all around machine, especially with the forks and bucket choices. Ventrac loaders (on select models) are kinda an afterthought.

The Toolcats are pretty sweet as well. CAB!
Compact telehandlers, too.

Anyhow, come up with a task list, find what machines would do those tasks well, and then try and correlate the right machine(s) with your budget.

TSM Class

Compact Tractors, Slope Mowers, Articulated Tractors, Tractor Attachments, Trailer Packages

power-trac.com

 

[2manyrocks]

Unexpected sudden changes in the terrain like groundhog holes, ditches, former plow furrows, and logs can cause a tractor to flip. Sudden turns, carrying implements that are too heavy or having the FEL too high can also cause a tractor to flip. My cousin, a lifelong farmer with decades of experience, was pulling a rear sprayer when the axle on it broke causing the liquid in the tank to shift on a hillside. He had to be airlifted to a trauma center. Another friend who's also a life long farmer with decades of experience was bush hogging on a hill in the early spring when the ground was still moist, and the grass sheared out from under his wheels. He didn't turn over, but had a nasty ride to the bottom of the hill.

If you've already had trouble on a ZTR, that suggests that you really want to be careful.

 

[redman135]

Hello Shoresy, 3 more things to think about, If getting a tractor, get AJUSTABLE rims and have the dealer set rims to maximum width.BIG improvement is stability/feel. Factory default is narrow for transport conveniance.
Alternative to single rear tyres is dual rear tyres. This gives a vastly improved stibility/feel over and above wide single rear wheels. If you fall off a hillside then you SLIDE, NOT Roll. Much safer.
Tyres: the tread bars should be at 45 degrees, as this pattern holds onto hillsides best. The shallow 30 degree tread bar tyres slide sideways more easiily, and will let go earlier than the 45's.
I grew up on a hill country farm.
As other posters have said, make a LIST of your requirements, this makes it easier for you , and the salesman to get the right machine for you ,
Ergonomics, make sure you try ALL the options for fit ,and operation if possable. Subtle differences can able up to a big positive or negative effect.
Lastly get a larger- than -you- think- you- need- machine, because as your knowledge and skill increase you WILL get "mission creep". It is expensive if you get to small a tractor.

 

[IndyIan]

If you can mow it straight up and down a normal 4wd tractor with Ag tires will scare you long before it will go over backwards, IMO. On the slope in front of the pines I was watching to see if the oil pressure light for the engine was going to go on, and I was happy I left the bucket on the loader. I kept the backend downhill the whole time on the steeper parts as any tractor with a pivoting front axle is really a tricycle. I mowed this in the late fall for the next years tree planting, which is why I left the strips.
Parts of this slope would be getting close to 30 degrees. The brush cutter is only a 5' at about 500lbs and my tractor with loader and bucket is near 5500lbs so it didn't matter much if it was lifted or riding the wheel on the ground.
If for some reason I had to mow something like this often I'd probably get a 7' wide side discharge finish mower and let it ride on the ground, but still keep the tractor backend downhill, also an HST is nice for this kind of terrain. The advantage of going straight up and down is holes or bumps don't really matter much at all and this slope had lots of groundhog activity from years ago...

 

[Shoresy]

"What’s your budget?

As others have mentioned, if you’re concerned about slopes, take a look at PowerTrac as you also look at other machines, just to get an idea of what they offer. They make several different sizes of machines, and two slope mowers that are rated at 40 and 45 degrees (45 degrees = 100% slope!)."

Thank you! Budget is what I want it to be, because I will lease the equipment with a buyout at the end, through my auto shop. That way it's 100% deductible.

PowerTrac is something new to me. I will be researching them shortly. This is the fun part, and I am in no hurry. I have owned that land for 20 years with no equipment, so no need to be in a hurry! UPDATE: Quick search found a PT dealer within an hour and a half drive, half as far as the Ventrac dealer I have been talking with. Looks like a demo is in order next week. They may have kicked Ventrac to the curb, just sayin'

 

[Shoresy]

"If you can mow it straight up and down a normal 4wd tractor with Ag tires will scare you long before it will go over backwards, IMO. On the slope in front of the pines I was watching to see if the oil pressure light for the engine was going to go on, and I was happy I left the bucket on the loader. I kept the backend downhill the whole time on the steeper parts as any tractor with a pivoting front axle is really a tricycle. I mowed this in the late fall for the next years tree planting, which is why I left the strips.
Parts of this slope would be getting close to 30 degrees. The brush cutter is only a 5' at about 500lbs and my tractor with loader and bucket is near 5500lbs so it didn't matter much if it was lifted or riding the wheel on the ground.
If for some reason I had to mow something like this often I'd probably get a 7' wide side discharge finish mower and let it ride on the ground, but still keep the tractor backend downhill, also an HST is nice for this kind of terrain. The advantage of going straight up and down is holes or bumps don't really matter much at all and this slope had lots of groundhog activity from years ago..."

Lots of good info here, thanks! I absolutely CAN mow up and downhill for most of what I will be mowing.

 

[Raul-02]

Where did you hear that?

where did I hear - - - - what?
That they might have declared BK?
Or what the tacticalturnip said about thinking that they went out of business?
Two different statements from two different people.

As to my statement. I was responding to turnip. Lots of companies declare BK and quite often people assume that's curtains for the business but more often than not it's just a move to address debt.

 

[Shoresy]

I looked online and it said they were manufactured in Miami, but the closet dealer to my cabin in the mountains is in Tazewell. Imma call
em before the day is out and find out a bit ,ore. Stay tuned

 

[MossRoad]

I looked online and it said they were manufactured in Miami, but the closet dealer to my cabin in the mountains is in Tazewell. Imma call
em before the day is out and find out a bit ,ore. Stay tuned

No. They are manufactured and sold factory direct in Tazewell. There are no dealers.

 

[Shoresy]

No. They are manufactured and sold factory direct in Tazewell. There are no dealers.

You are so very correct! My concern is that they have no service available whatsoever. I have have been in the auto repair field since 1978, for 24 years as a tech, and 20 as a shop owner. I have absolutely zero interest in wrenching on anything ever again lol. I guess I could haul it into my shop, cuz my guys can fix anything, but still, that's a 165 mile trailer trip from where the machine will live in Va.

 

[MossRoad]

That is definitely something to think about. Some folks can’t repair their own equipment. Some folks can, but don’t want to. Some folks want to, but don’t know how (yet). And some folks enjoy working on their own stuff (like me). I will say that in the 21 years I’ve owned mine, the few times I needed something, PT has excellent phone support and ships parts fast.

 

[mudking]

...I have a quote from Kubota for an L3902... ...I am concerned the Kubota may have too high a center of gravity to do what I need, even w/4WD...

I'm in hill country, and Kubota is a high-quality, very well-engineered machine that will give excellent service under many conditions. They also tend to be rather light weight on the bottom, which is great if you're trailering it in a landscaping business, but not so good for traversing hills. Around me they're regarded as rollover-prone. I would be wary of Kubota for the application you describe.

 

[DEWFPO]

I have a zero turn that has a steering wheel and I use it on steep slopes. With both rear wheels powered it has very good traction and ridiculous manuverability. The one I have is a Cub Cadet. If I had large acreage to mow and steep slopes I'd use a use a larger mower deck and a lower center of gravity and I wouldn't mow the slopes if there was dew on it.

 

[beenthere]

I am older, think Medicare age, with ZERO experience with tractors or landscape equipment. I have a 50 acre property in the Va. hills that I started mowing 8-9 acres on. A lot of it is flat, but there are several acres with a 20 degree-ish slope on it. I have a quote from Kubota for an L3902. I am visiting the Ventrac dealer next week. I thought I would also look into a Toolcat, though I think it may be too pricey for my blood.

I have mowed most of it with a small Gravely ZTR, but I was VERY uncomfortable on the hills. ALMOST had a serious accident, but I got very LUCKY and didn't get hurt. I want my butt as close to Mother Earth as it can be, and I am concerned the Kubota may have too high a center of gravity to do what I need, even w/4WD. I love a lot of what the Ventrac can do, and I would never have to worry about what I could mow, but I can't get satisfied with no PTO or rear functionality at all.

So I called my buddy in Kentucky who runs a grading/landscape mulching/backhoe business, and I asked him if he could only have ONE piece of equipment to maintain my property he told me "A ToolCat, but I have never operated a Ventrac." So here I am digging in the Toolcat forum. But I am not finding much info about mowing on hills.

Last thing, I have seen my neighbors bush hog the property, and also cut and bale hay (small round bales) with 2WD tractors, but they were raised up mowing in the mountains. I cringed just watching them. But it can be done. My wife thinks I am nuts, and I'm gonna kill myself, but my most satisfied moments in life these days are spent messing around on that land. I should have done this 20 years ago.

I am thinking a Toolcat is super heavy, and can crabwalk, so it should be fine on my hills. But I have thought a lot of things in my life that turned out to be dead wrong. "People will never buy water sold in plastic bottles" wrong. Thanks ahead of time for your thoughts!

Ventrac, but not Kubota or Toolcat.

 

[Jac65]

Not sure how long the slopes are you need to cut, but have you considered an offset mower? lets you reach down a bank without getting to close.

 

[Shoresy]

That won't fit my application. I have long runs of 100 ft plus hill section. But Thanks for the suggestion

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

... I was VERY uncomfortable on the hills.

This is an issue that can only be solved by either experience or something with a suspension.

Any tractor is going to feel odd and "tippy" to someone that's used to the compensation a suspension system provides. It's the nature of the beast and the only way to get used to it is through experience. Tipping a tractor is not good experience, so knowing the point of no return and having an inclinometer to let you know if you're approaching the danger zone will help boost confidence.

Or... stick with the Toolcat. It may be everything you need and not give you that sinking feeling in your gut as you mow on an incline.

 

[Shoresy]

I have a zero turn that has a steering wheel and I use it on steep slopes. With both rear wheels powered it has very good traction and ridiculous manuverability. The one I have is a Cub Cadet. If I had large acreage to mow and steep slopes I'd use a use a larger mower deck and a lower center of gravity and I wouldn't mow the slopes if there was dew on it.

I have seen that Cub Cadet with the steering system for the front wheels on the ZTR, and I was really thinking that might be the ticket. But looking deeper, the next availability is April 2023, per Cub Cadet.

 

[Shenandoah MF1760]

I think PowerTrac recently went out of business; they're great machines, but it's something to be aware of.

Their website is still up @ TSM Class and I can't find anything saying they're no longer in business.

 

[Shoresy]

I'm in hill country, and Kubota is a high-quality, very well-engineered machine that will give excellent service under many conditions. They also tend to be rather light weight on the bottom, which is great if you're trailering it in a landscaping business, but not so good for traversing hills. Around me they're regarded as rollover-prone. I would be wary of Kubota for the application you describe.

I have come to the same conclusion. I think the situation may call for 2 different pieces of equipment, one for safe mowing, and one for tractor stuff. Now, that's just a crying shame, huh?(NOT!!)