Scag Liquid Cooled

[4tillingdirt]

I noticed Scag has a liquid cooled Turf Tiger II. Most commercial mowers are not liquid cooled so I was wondering if that is just a waste of money? Is scag really better than other commercial mowers?

 

[5030]

depends on the depth of your wallet. Just like anything else.

 

[4tillingdirt]

Yeah it is kind of hard to stomach a 20K mower even it will last for 25 years when not used by a mowing company.

 

[Dwellonroof]

I have a 2015 Scag Turf Tiger with a 28hp Cat Diesel, it is a mowing machine.

 

[workinonit]

You couldn't give a Scag away around here. You just don't see them. I just bought a Kubota water cooled diesel. Actually, water cooled is not as rare as you think on commercial mowers.

 

[LD1]

Liquid cooled what? Whats the engine?

Scag had some problems 10-15 years ago with some water cooled kawasaki mowers.

But reality.....all the commercial mowers.....toro, scag, exmark, hustler, etc etc etc are MORE similar than they are different. Most of the pretty much use the SAME choices for engines and the SAME options for pump/wheel motors.

Basically just comes down to paint color and ergonomics really.

Even most of the common things that need replaced from time to time are all usually universal. Like safety switches, PTO and key switches, blades, casters, pto clutches, etc.

With proper maintenance and oil changes.....the air cooled engines are good for ~3000hrs. So even a HIGH use homeowner putting 100hrs a year on is gonna get 30 years out of one.

Most rot the decks out because people dont keep the corrosive grass buildup cleaned off of them or scrape the underside of the decks before winter storage.

Personally I wouldnt spend the extra $$$ to add complexity

 

[Dwellonroof]

I like the diesel because my tractor is diesel and the only gas I need to store is for my weed eater which is only about 2 gallon a year.
I don't think it is complex at all.

 

[workinonit]

Me either. And my Kubota doesn't have wheel motors which is something I really like about it. It also has shaft driven deck so there's no long deck belt like the Deere's have. Personally I think they have removed a lot of the complexity from their diesel ZTs.

 

[EddieWalker]

I have a Scag Wildcat with a 26hp liquid cooled Kawasaki engine. The engine has been awesome. I mow around the farm, so it's not commercial, but it could be 100 degrees and I'm out mowing for several hours. I bought it brand new in 2011 for $8,000. The air cooled models where just a grand cheaper, and the dealer told me that it would be good for 3,000 hours, where the air cooled engines where only good for 2,000 hours. I think the diesel was expected to last 4,000 hours, but it was significantly more money.

When it's running, it's an awesome mowing machine. Plenty of power and traction. It's also fairly comfortable. The new seats look smaller to me, so I'm not sure if they are as comfortable. My seat is really nice!!

Because of all the issues I've had with safety switches, I would not buy another Scag. I would not recommend buying Scag. I can't even count how many hours I've spent over the last five or six years trying to get it started, only to waste a day searching for an electrical issue. Fix it, mow for the day, and the next time, do it all over again to find a different issue.

This year I removed all the wiring. I just cut it out and threw it away. Now I just have the basics need to start the engine, charge the battery, turn on the PTO for the blades, and that's about it. So far, it's been working pretty good.

 

[LD1]

I have a Scag Wildcat with a 26hp liquid cooled Kawasaki engine. The engine has been awesome. I mow around the farm, so it's not commercial, but it could be 100 degrees and I'm out mowing for several hours. I bought it brand new in 2011 for $8,000. The air cooled models where just a grand cheaper, and the dealer told me that it would be good for 3,000 hours, where the air cooled engines where only good for 2,000 hours. I think the diesel was expected to last 4,000 hours, but it was significantly more money.

When it's running, it's an awesome mowing machine. Plenty of power and traction. It's also fairly comfortable. The new seats look smaller to me, so I'm not sure if they are as comfortable. My seat is really nice!!

Because of all the issues I've had with safety switches, I would not buy another Scag. I would not recommend buying Scag. I can't even count how many hours I've spent over the last five or six years trying to get it started, only to waste a day searching for an electrical issue. Fix it, mow for the day, and the next time, do it all over again to find a different issue.

This year I removed all the wiring. I just cut it out and threw it away. Now I just have the basics need to start the engine, charge the battery, turn on the PTO for the blades, and that's about it. So far, it's been working pretty good.

It isn't a scag thing.

Most the big players use all the same safety switches. So you'd just be trading names and color....but same issues

 

[RandyT]

It isn't a scag thing.

Most the big players use all the same safety switches. So you'd just be trading names and color....but same issues

Something that could be used on other brands not as widespread is the operator interlock module used on Scag. Which is the brains off the Scag operation. Doesn't fail often but can be a bear to track down issues and not a cheap part.

 

[LD1]

Something that could be used on other brands not as widespread is the operator interlock module used on Scag. Which is the brains off the Scag operation. Doesn't fail often but can be a bear to track down issues and not a cheap part.

All of the newer mowers have their own sort of little mini computer.....and going to alot of efi mowers also adds complexity.

My wildcat don't have an interlock module.

But I am speaking in terms of general switches. The park brake, handles x2, and seat safeties.....are likely all the same generic part. Safe for ignition switchs and pto on/off switches.

I did as Eddie did and jumpered all the safeties on mine. Got tires of making sure handles were fully out, park brake set, and pto off just to jump off to move a dog toy real quick. Then back on.....don't pull on handles til park brake off or she does.....so hurry and throw the handles back out to keep it running.....release park brake then pull handles and go.

So annoying.....and I don't like starting and stopping the PTO unless absolutely necessary. Causes undue wear on the clutch itself, as well as the shockload on the belt.

But to each his own. I won't advise anyone to bypass safetys for legal reasons. There are still several adults that need rounded and plastic scissors for safety reasons too...

 

[RandyT]

All of the newer mowers have their own sort of little mini computer.....and going to alot of efi mowers also adds complexity.

My wildcat don't have an interlock module.

But I am speaking in terms of general switches. The park brake, handles x2, and seat safeties.....are likely all the same generic part. Safe for ignition switchs and pto on/off switches.

I did as Eddie did and jumpered all the safeties on mine. Got tires of making sure handles were fully out, park brake set, and pto off just to jump off to move a dog toy real quick. Then back on.....don't pull on handles til park brake off or she does.....so hurry and throw the handles back out to keep it running.....release park brake then pull handles and go.

So annoying.....and I don't like starting and stopping the PTO unless absolutely necessary. Causes undue wear on the clutch itself, as well as the shockload on the belt.

But to each his own. I won't advise anyone to bypass safetys for legal reasons. There are still several adults that need rounded and plastic scissors for safety reasons too...

Very true the new EFI systems are getting more complex. Some even have multiple modules. And the engine control module talks to the mower control module via can bus. And I have always had an issue with the stopping and starting of the pto clutch on some mowers. Some will disengage when both levers are moved to reverse, and then auto restart when one lever is moved back forward. Nothing like listening to your neighbors mowers and quietly saying to yourself. forward, reverse, forward, reverse.

 

[LD1]

I didnt know the stopping of the deck when reversed had made its way to zeroturns yet. I knew it was on riders. Nothing like implementing a non-option feature.....to sell more belts and clutches....and do it in the name of "safety".

One way or another.....I will NEVER own a mower that kills the deck when in reverse

Very true the new EFI systems are getting more complex. Some even have multiple modules. And the engine control module talks to the mower control module via can bus. And I have always had an issue with the stopping and starting of the pto clutch on some mowers. Some will disengage when both levers are moved to reverse, and then auto restart when one lever is moved back forward. Nothing like listening to your neighbors mowers and quietly saying to yourself. forward, reverse, forward, reverse.

 

[RandyT]

I didnt know the stopping of the deck when reversed had made its way to zeroturns yet. I knew it was on riders. Nothing like implementing a non-option feature.....to sell more belts and clutches....and do it in the name of "safety".

One way or another.....I will NEVER own a mower that kills the deck when in reverse

Some will auto stop and start when both direction control levers are in the reverse position. Some will shut off the deck and you have to manually disengage and re-engage the deck. Some will kill the engine.

 

[LD1]

Some will auto stop and start when both direction control levers are in the reverse position. Some will shut off the deck and you have to manually disengage and re-engage the deck. Some will kill the engine.

I will never own one.... Or will find a way to override it

 

[DK35vince]

Some will auto stop and start when both direction control levers are in the reverse position. Some will shut off the deck and you have to manually disengage and re-engage the deck. Some will kill the engine.

I'm not sure any of the commercial machines do that.
I think some of the lower end residential models kill the mower when reversed.

 

[RandyT]

I'm not sure any of the commercial machines do that.
I think some of the lower end residential models kill the mower when reversed.

I see it on Troybilt, Cub Cadet, Scag, and Kubota low to mid grade consumer Z turns. Not seen on full commercial mowers as of yet.

 

[JimRB]

I do not know if the Kawasaki water cooled is quieter than the air cooled. I fixed a no start Scag with a few switches, removed jumper wires and replaced missing fuse holder. Then I moved on to new deck spindles, straightening bent deck, cutting out a bigger than 1 foot square section of broken deck metal and welding in a new patch, welding loose metal underneath, replacing missing bolts and on and on the list went. Went to mow and it looked horrible. How can that be as I measured and measured. I did not measure the new blades that were on the mower when I took it to repair. New blades a few inches longer and that mower cut like a dream. Quiet (for a 61" mower) and great quality of cut. That non-profit has a newer Scag with an air cooled engine. I guess I should try to do a test to see if the air cooled Scag is noisier than the water cooled Scag. The water cooled has only 1,000 hours and is maybe 16 years old. So much abuse and rigging/crummy repairs. I do not know how many hours I spent getting grease fittings to take grease. At least 2 full days. One full day cutting apart, pressing apart and welding back a parking brake actuator. All because of lack of proper greasing. Grease your fittings, even the ones with plugs that look like they do not get greased.

I too wondered if there is much difference between a Ferris, Scag, John Deere, Husqvarna, Ariens or whoever you consider to make a premium or heavy duty mower. Just keep it clean, painted, greased and oil changed.

 

[4570Man]

Me either. And my Kubota doesn't have wheel motors which is something I really like about it. It also has shaft driven deck so there's no long deck belt like the Deere's have. Personally I think they have removed a lot of the complexity from their diesel ZTs.

I like a Kubota ZT for that reason. I have a 428D Grasshopper that’s Kubota powered that I bought used and it’s a good machine so trading isn’t high on my priority list but if I was going to I’d buy a Kubota.