Air conditioner woes

[ultrarunner]

What's with the bad coils and 3 months on the slow boat for the part under warranty to arrive?

Carriers from the 90's still on the job...

Newer stuff it's almost 50/50... well not that bad but under warranty coils?

 

[tallyho8]

Condenser coils are non-moving parts that rarely go bad so consequently they are not stocked by most companies and have to be ordered from the manufacturer.

 

[Raul-02]

"Bad cooling tower fan motor"

those were my words.

 

[ultrarunner]

and therein lies the problem... in 5 years coils on 3 of the newest package units bad and parts furnished at no charge but they first had to be made and then shipped across the Pacific and labor paid to install...

For a non moving part I would not expect to see failures under warranty.

Daikin marketed as direct Carrier replacement... and they refused to acknowledge any query from me the hospital end user...

On the other hand Carrier still running since 1995 and parts readily available but I have never ordered a Carrier Coil so not apples to apples...

Condenser coils are non-moving parts that rarely go bad so consequently they are not stocked by most companies and have to be ordered from the manufacturer.

 

[kenmac]

"Bad cooling tower fan motor"
My first thoughts was . Damn ! The man's got a chiller at his home

 

[kenmac]

I had a outdoor unit with a bad outdoor TXV (outdoor TXV way more labor intensive along with refrigerant over a condenser fan motor).

Cake walk !

 

[Sigarms]

Cake walk !

I got a personal use deal from a manufacturer on a 16 SEER two stage variable speed system that kind of gave me an excuse to want to change it out (never had a two stage compressor in my own home). I can also now say from personal experience that a multi stage with variable speed airflow doesn't have the impact on your humidity levels as a dedicated whole house dehumidifier would have (which is another reason why I wanted to try it).

I've got a AC unit down in the basement that hasn't worked the last 3 years, and now that my father has passed (he lived down there) I'm wanting to try a Bosch inverter and dual fuel it with the old Trane gas furnace and see what it does for heat. I think I could justify it because I'm on LP and it ain't cheap. I know old people, no way would I put in a heat pump for my dad for heat when he was used to a boiler for heat up north LOL

 

[2manyrocks]

What's with the bad coils and 3 months on the slow boat for the part under warranty to arrive?

Carriers from the 90's still on the job...

Newer stuff it's almost 50/50... well not that bad but under warranty coils?

My first guess would be the 90's stuff was made in the USA with good quality controls in place.

My parents had a refrigerator that worked for over 40 years. The reliability of the newer ones doesn't appear very good.

 

[Sigarms]

My first guess would be the 90's stuff was made in the USA with good quality controls in place.

I really hate to say this, but doing this for as long as I have, being made in the USA has nothing to do with quality control when it comes to HVAC equipment.

Coils from ALL manufacturers have taken a hit since around 2000 IMO. Name the brand, and they all have had some issues with coils over the last 2 decades. The catch phrase used by manufacturers is formicary corrosion

 

[Sigarms]

On the other hand Carrier still running since 1995 and parts readily available but I have never ordered a Carrier Coil so not apples to apples...

Want a bigger issue? Try having a Mitsubishi ductless unit installed 6 years ago, have a indoor coil leak, need to replace the coil, and then find out that the coil is now obsolete even though it is still under warranty and not available.

Thing is, you can't use a new indoor head (replace the entire head instead of the coil) because it's incompatible with the existing older outdoor unit.

End user will be getting free equipment (indoor and outdoor unit) less labor to change everything out.

 

[JethroB]

I got a personal use deal from a manufacturer on a 16 SEER two stage variable speed system that kind of gave me an excuse to want to change it out (never had a two stage compressor in my own home). I can also now say from personal experience that a multi stage with variable speed airflow doesn't have the impact on your humidity levels as a dedicated whole house dehumidifier would have (which is another reason why I wanted to try it).

I've got a AC unit down in the basement that hasn't worked the last 3 years, and now that my father has passed (he lived down there) I'm wanting to try a Bosch inverter and dual fuel it with the old Trane gas furnace and see what it does for heat. I think I could justify it because I'm on LP and it ain't cheap. I know old people, no way would I put in a heat pump for my dad for heat when he was used to a boiler for heat up north LOL

Sorry to hear about your dad. You wrote about him often.
Regards.

 

[2manyrocks]

I really hate to say this, but doing this for as long as I have, being made in the USA has nothing to do with quality control when it comes to HVAC equipment.

Coils from ALL manufacturers have taken a hit since around 2000 IMO. Name the brand, and they all have had some issues with coils over the last 2 decades. The catch phrase used by manufacturers is formicary corrosion

What do you think of this opinion concerning formicary corrosion being due to the phase out of r22 in favor of R410a beginning in 2010? "the air inside your home has changed little over those 35 years, yet only recently have leak issues arisen. The sole common denominator amongst our leaking coils is R-410A refrigerant."

Bailey's Heating and Air, Inc.

 

[ultrarunner]

What do you think of this opinion concerning formicary corrosion being due to the phase out of r22 in favor of R410a beginning in 2010? "the air inside your home has changed little over those 35 years, yet only recently have leak issues arisen. The sole common denominator amongst our leaking coils is R-410A refrigerant."

Bailey's Heating and Air, Inc.

All my bad coils 410-A... R-22 no issues approaching 30 years.

 

[fuchifarm]

R-410a is much higher pressure than r22. Also coils today use thinner gauge pipe. The result is oxidation in the new coils get pin hole leaks much faster.

 

[Sigarms]

What do you think of this opinion concerning formicary corrosion being due to the phase out of r22 in favor of R410a beginning in 2010? "the air inside your home has changed little over those 35 years, yet only recently have leak issues arisen. The sole common denominator amongst our leaking coils is R-410A refrigerant."

Bailey's Heating and Air, Inc.

As far as my opinion per your question, if anything 410 runs at a higher pressure than 22, but I don't see the refrigerant causing formicary corrosion itself.

Hard to believe, but even 22 coils fail as well.

Do you honestly think manufacturers wanted to go to R410A? Here is the kicker, now manufacturers have to deal with SEER2 rating going into 2023, AND for better or worse, they pushed back the refrigerant change to 2025 instead of next year.

Think about that...The government tells the manufacturers hey, you're switching to 410, and then less than 20 years later, 410A is going to be phased out and right now, it's a game of chicken to see if there is going to be one refrigerant or multiple refrigerants per manufacturers.

My opinion is that the reason why HVAC equipment doesn't "last" like it use to is because it's being over engineered to meet government requirements, which keep going up. More electrical parts you have in equipment, more chances of something failing.

 

[2manyrocks]

I suppose most buyers simply buy what's available when their HVAC unit dies, but are there reasons to buy 410a units while they are still available or is that buying into an obsolete refrigerant that's going to be hard to find after the change over in 2025?

 

[Sigarms]

I suppose most buyers simply buy what's available when their HVAC unit dies, but are there reasons to buy 410a units while they are still available or is that buying into an obsolete refrigerant that's going to be hard to find after the change over in 2025?

You still should have time to find R410A after 2025, but 2035 may be another story. No different than R22.

It's getting to the point I can see the value in a "dry" unit (unit with no refrigerant in it, you put it in). R22 drop in's are about the same price as R410A pricing now (little higher, but it's like the stock market some months). Buy a new dry unit, pick up a air handler, flush or replace the line set, then pick your drop in. Downside is it won't be rated and you could be rolling the dice with the actual capacity if you actually do a load.

 

[ultrarunner]

I’m starting to see propane as refrigerant… the new ice maker is labeled all over flammable refrigerant and learned it is propane.

It been 8 months and no issues so manufacturers are being creative.

It’s like the ice skating rink closed forever because the cost to switch to a modern refrigerant and all that entailed would never pencil out.

 

[Sigarms]

I’m starting to see propane as refrigerant… the new ice maker is labeled all over flammable refrigerant and learned it is propane.

Whatever it is in 2025, it will be LP based, that was pretty much confirmed a couple of years ago (have to remember, couple of years ago, the target date was 2023).

I have the sneaky suspicion that compression fittings will be surging down the road for copper connections for AC units in 2025 LOL

 

[Raul-02]

My first thoughts was . Damn ! The man's got a chiller at his home

well, it is a cooling tower. It's a tower in the same sense that the world tower can describe a PC case, and it is for cooling. So "cooling tower" is an apt term in spite of not being the term used in the HVAC trade. I could have used "heat exchanger," but that wouldn't have been any more or less correct.