TYM T330 HST Joystick Control Leak

[MoMatt]

I have a 2006 TYM T330 HST with a TL200 Loader.

The 4 way loader joystick leaks from the base of the joystick. I've taken apart the front of the joystick and see 4 O rings on the 2 valves. I'm going to replace those. Can anyone tell what the problem might be if the O rings don't fix it? Should I take the whole valve apart?

I wasn't able to get the hoses off easily. I've tried with a 1" wrench but the hoses don't budge. Any tips?

Here are some pictures:

TYM

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photos.app.goo.gl

And here's a video (still uploading / processing at the time of this post, it should be live in 20 minutes or so):

In the video when you hear a load on the engine, I am raising the 3PH with a heavy implement (snowblower). You can see when there's a load on the system, fluid gushes out from the plate at the base of the joystick.

 

[MoMatt]

Didn't take pictures but the two links that go into the valve body (one for bucket up/down, one for curl / dump) have bearings behind the face plate and each one has 2 o-rings.

The o-ring closest to the valve body is 13/16 od, 11/16 id, 1/16 wall and I was not able to find replacements for those. The other o-ring is a #12 plumbing size (13/16 od, 5/8 id, 3/32 wall).

I cleaned up a little pitting / rust on the face plate and bearings, trimmed a flap off the one of the thin o-rings and put it all back together, and it seems to have stopped the leak for now.

The rubber cover for the joystick has been torn, so I think water got in there and all that stuff got some rust on it.

Yet another hydraulic leak fixed for now. Until next time.

 

[Harry in Ky]

I can't tell from the video, but how many hoses connect the loader valve to the tractor? Two or three? If it's two, there may be part of the cause for the O ring failure

 

[MoMatt]

I can't tell from the video, but how many hoses connect the loader valve to the tractor? Two or three? If it's two, there may be part of the cause for the O ring failure

There are six hoses total, 4 going out to the loader and 2 more, one on each side of the valve.

I don't know much about hydraulics - what would that have to do with causing an o ring to fail?

 

[Harry in Ky]

It goes something like this. In an open center hydraulic system whenever valves are connected in series (like a loader valve, extra remote valves, etc) they SHOULD be connected in a power beyond configuration. I think MOST people who understand much about hydraulics would agree to that theory, although there are plenty who claim they don't see the need, they have one or more that aren't that way, have been for years without a problem, on and on. To each his own. When ever I add, reconfigure, or otherwise change anything related to valves on open center systems I do it this way. It can solve or prevent certain issues with downstream circuits as well as reduce pressure on the O rings you just replaced.

If you take the time to read through some of this it might help explain the "what and why" of it, maybe help you understand the logic. Then you can decide if you wish to keep your system "as is" or make some changes. Most valves are power beyond capable, I THINK yours is too, from what I saw. It's just a matter of locating a sleeve to fit it. That might be a challenge for someone with no experience at that sort of thing. All that's left at that point is determining a good, accessible port on the tractor for a sump return. That's usually not all that difficult, but sometimes it requires some creative engineering.

Power Beyond Option Parts | Cross Mfg.

The power beyond sleeve prevents subjecting the exhaust or return passages and spool seals of the control valve to back pressure.

crossmfg.com

 

[oldnslo]

Harry is correct in that you require power beyond to prevent damage to the loader valve.

Was the loader recently added to your tractor or has it always been this way?

 

[K5lwq]

I do not know about this tractor but if there is a priority valve used then it may not require power beyond from the loader. A picture of where the 2 hoses connect to the tractor may share some light on the subject.

 

[MoMatt]

Wow, you guys are alright. Thanks for taking a look.

Could that be related to this issue that I have?
- When I have the 3 point snowblower attached, the bucket struggles to function properly unless the 3PH is lowered all the way / only slightly raised. So, if I want to move snow with the bucket, I have to:

1. position the bucket,
2. raise the 3PH,
3. drive,
4. lower the 3PH,
5. manipulate the bucket.

Kind of a circus. Since I reassembled the loader joystick, this problem seems slightly better (I can have the 3PH off the ground a little bit and still use the bucket). It's a heavy implement, and I don't have that problem with the box blade attached.

Edit: It's a 30hp tractor and the snowblower is a 74" Buhler Allied and weighs 756 pounds. The Farm-King website (who now owns the Allied brand I guess) recommends a 40-70hp tractor for this. Could this be too big for the tractor and put unnecessary strain on the hydraulics?

I'll get a picture of where the hoses connect to the system.

The loader I believe is a factory option from TYM. I got the tractor / loader and implements used a few years ago. The loader shows TL200 on the side.

 

[Harry in Ky]

Your snowblower issue is a prime example of a "downsteam" problem. Just because your loader valve was a factory option doesn't make it right. The non power beyond configuration is simpler, cheaper, and usually faster to install so often dealer installations go that way.

Examine your valve. If there is a sleeve available to fit, it would be worth your while to go that route, regardless of those who disagree. Yes, how and where the lines currently connect to the tractor will have a bearing, but I still maintain you go with power beyond if at all possible. Typically the locally installed loader valve will get oil supplied directly from the hydraulic pump and flow from there goes back into the tractor system. That makes everything else a downstream circuit so power beyond there is always a good idea.

 

[K5lwq]

Your snowblower issue is a prime example of a "downsteam" problem. Just because your loader valve was a factory option doesn't make it right. The non power beyond configuration is simpler, cheaper, and usually faster to install so often dealer installations go that way.

Examine your valve. If there is a sleeve available to fit, it would be worth your while to go that route, regardless of those who disagree. Yes, how and where the lines currently connect to the tractor will have a bearing, but I still maintain you go with power beyond if at all possible. Typically the locally installed loader valve will get oil supplied directly from the hydraulic pump and flow from there goes back into the tractor system. That makes everything else a downstream circuit so power beyond there is always a good idea.

I do not disagree. But if the loader valve is not feeding another valve it does not need Power Beyond. That may be the case with this tractor.

 

[MoMatt]

Here are pictures of the hydraulic lines coming from the system. The two hoses coming from the system go into the loader valve at each side.

3 new items by Matt McCool

photos.app.goo.gl

 

[oldnslo]

I would suggest getting a hydraulic schematic for your tractor and or owners manual that explains how your tractor system operates. From what you are describing it seems like something is not correct. For those seals to leak you would have to pressurize the tank port. Doing this on most valves can crack the housing and if system relief is in the valve it becomes inoperable since tank pressure increases the relief setting.

 

[ptsg]

Here is a link to the service manual for the T330: https://www.mytractorforum.com/attachments/tym-t290-t300-t330-service-manual-pdf.241207/

 

[oldnslo]

Schematic in section 9 of The service manual shows that a remote valve requires power beyond to feed the 3 point circuit.

 

[K5lwq]

I wonder if this line would be return to tank? We need to see the markings for the valve ports and determine which line feeds what. Finding a power beyond sleeve for the valve may be difficult.

 

[oldnslo]

K5, good question on that extra line. Agree owner needs to see if there are markings on his Loader valve ports. Schematic that PT provided link for did not show loader valve so I presume this was an option but in looking at those steel lines it makes you wonder if it possibly came prepared for loader valve.

Possibly a dealer would have some insight on power beyond sleeve option if these were truly factory options.

 

[MoMatt]

Here is a link to the service manual for the T330: https://www.mytractorforum.com/attachments/tym-t290-t300-t330-service-manual-pdf.241207/

Awesome - thank you. I haven't seen this before - I've found the engine manual in the past but not this.

I wonder if this line would be return to tank? We need to see the markings for the valve ports and determine which line feeds what. Finding a power beyond sleeve for the valve may be difficult.

View attachment 772976

Where would I look for markings? Look on the loader valve? I tried to show in this picture where the steel
lines go - not the best picture:

I'll look for markings on the loader valve and try to figure out which line does what. The sun is just going down so it's getting cold fast - it'll have to wait until tomorrow.

K5, good question on that extra line. Agree owner needs to see if there are markings on his Loader valve ports. Schematic that PT provided link for did not show loader valve so I presume this was an option but in looking at those steel lines it makes you wonder if it possibly came prepared for loader valve.

Possibly a dealer would have some insight on power beyond sleeve option if these were truly factory options.

Thanks everyone for your help and insight. I'm lucky if I can reach anyone at the dealer to ask questions but I'll try on Monday.

I have a hydraulic top link ready to install, but I'm going to wait to introduce another component to the hydraulic system until I figure out if there's a problem or not.

 

[MoMatt]

It goes something like this. In an open center hydraulic system whenever valves are connected in series (like a loader valve, extra remote valves, etc) they SHOULD be connected in a power beyond configuration. I think MOST people who understand much about hydraulics would agree to that theory, although there are plenty who claim they don't see the need, they have one or more that aren't that way, have been for years without a problem, on and on. To each his own. When ever I add, reconfigure, or otherwise change anything related to valves on open center systems I do it this way. It can solve or prevent certain issues with downstream circuits as well as reduce pressure on the O rings you just replaced.

If you take the time to read through some of this it might help explain the "what and why" of it, maybe help you understand the logic. Then you can decide if you wish to keep your system "as is" or make some changes. Most valves are power beyond capable, I THINK yours is too, from what I saw. It's just a matter of locating a sleeve to fit it. That might be a challenge for someone with no experience at that sort of thing. All that's left at that point is determining a good, accessible port on the tractor for a sump return. That's usually not all that difficult, but sometimes it requires some creative engineering.

Power Beyond Option Parts | Cross Mfg.

The power beyond sleeve prevents subjecting the exhaust or return passages and spool seals of the control valve to back pressure.

crossmfg.com

Harry I read that page - so this would go on the inlet side of the loader control valve, and would require a new hose that would go from the power return sleeve back to the reservoir? Is that correct?

Edit: It's starting to make sense I think. So when I raised the 3PH with the heavy snowblower, there was a large demand on the system, so the pump increased flow. This increased flow also went to the loader valve since it's connected to the same system. Hence the fluid gushing out when the 3PH was raised.

A Power return sleeve would be a gatekeeper for that extra flow and send it back to the reservoir. Correct?

 

[K5lwq]

Where would I look for markings? Look on the loader valve? I tried to show in this picture where the steel
lines go - not the best picture:

Look closely around the ports. You should see P for power in, T for tank and C or Y for power beyond. The C would be where the power beyond sleeve would go so this one likely has a plug now.

 

[Keweenaw County Yooper]

I had a T330 and I happen to have a couple of pictures of how the loader valve was installed on mine from the factory. Not the best pictures but I hope these can help some. Yooper