Self driving cars will get their drivers killed

[Fuddyduddy1952]

Self driving is nuts for many reasons. Here's one example: My wife and I were going home one evening, the last traffic light is about 4 miles from home. Speed limit is 45 which I'm doing, and it's 2 lanes there at the intersection with double solid (do not pass) marking. I'm going straight and had the green light, my headlights were on.
Waiting at the intersection was a school bus full of kids. Right as I got to the light, I mean right AT the light the school bus pulls out in front of me.
Now...tell me how a Tesla or any self driving car would react. Slam on brakes? At 45 mph and school bus pulls out impossible to stop.
45mph to zero in 20-30 feet? It's a double solid, no passing unless you want a head-on collision oncoming traffic.
Here's what I did, and I had milliseconds to react. Car coming I had one option: downshift and floor it, so I cross double solid, avoiding the bus, and at 60-65 mph fast enough to get back around into my lane avoiding the oncoming car.
Wife says "fine piece of driving", and alive to tell about it.
Just one of many examples, but what would a self driving car do in that situation?

 

[fatjay]

Sometimes go fast is the only way to avoid a collision, I hadn't thought about that in relation to self driving cars, but have definitely had to do it. Not all cars can do it either, but those tesla's can. All torque all the time.

 

[Avenger]

Self driving is nuts for many reasons. Here's one example: My wife and I were going home one evening, the last traffic light is about 4 miles from home. Speed limit is 45 which I'm doing, and it's 2 lanes there at the intersection with double solid (do not pass) marking. I'm going straight and had the green light, my headlights were on.
Waiting at the intersection was a school bus full of kids. Right as I got to the light, I mean right AT the light the school bus pulls out in front of me.
Now...tell me how a Tesla or any self driving car would react. Slam on brakes? At 45 mph and school bus pulls out impossible to stop.
45mph to zero in 20-30 feet? It's a double solid, no passing unless you want a head-on collision oncoming traffic.
Here's what I did, and I had milliseconds to react. Car coming I had one option: downshift and floor it, so I cross double solid, avoiding the bus, and at 60-65 mph fast enough to get back around into my lane avoiding the oncoming car.
Wife says "fine piece of driving", and alive to tell about it.
Just one of many examples, but what would a self driving car do in that situation?

This is a prime example where human reaction and split second decision making is required. Which is why these self-driving cars require you to pay attention. You cannot set self-driving, recline the seat and take a nap. They do allow, just like an aircraft, to take control quickly simply by grabbing the controls and controlling the car.

In this situation, if I was driving a Tesla and a school bus full of children pulled out in front of me. I had the self-driving enabled, I would hope that I was paying enough attention to simply do exactly what you did. The car would have let go of 'its' control over to me to get out of the situation.

One good thing about these Teslas is that they are equipped with 360 degrees of cameras. I would have saved that video and sent it to the school board or bus garage. That driver is at fault.

We can "what if" every scenario to death. You can hate the idea of self-driving technology, that's your opinion. But you cannot deny that its not only the future, but the future is now. Its no longer 'coming,' its here. Currently, you do have the option to not have it, not use it. And I hope it stays that way, but I doubt it. Eventually these cars that do have self-driving will be obsolete and less desirable by the masses. They will be relegated to the "classic car" demographic.

 

[Fuddyduddy1952]

If the self driving feature is on, the driver may be (is supposed to be) alert and ready to take over...and not a "what if" scenario...but something like that happens so fast I would bet the self driving feature would apply brakes before driver could react taking over.
Precious milliseconds would be lost...car brakes, driver takes over, accelerates, etc.
It wouldn't end well and one of many examples. Just like the motorcycle deaths.
Not me, and glad I'm old!

 

[fatjay]

One good thing about these Teslas is that they are equipped with 360 degrees of cameras. I would have saved that video and sent it to the school board or bus garage. That driver is at fault.

That's the problem in this scenario. You'd be in your car, under a bus, possibly dead.

Which raises an interesting question. What happens in the event of an at fault accident when driving a self driving car? Do you sue the auto-maker? Is the driver supposed to anticipate an at fault accident and regain control at the last second? What if it's to late? Tesla's have 360 degree cameras, but if there's an accident, is that information stored and available after the fact, or is it only live?

Or is self driving cars only a fad? 20 years ago, cruise control was all the rage. A must have on any new car. But how many actually use cruise control? Or even adaptive cruise control? Every time I try it, it somehow gets in the way, I have to tap the brakes, or change lanes, or something else comes up. And ultimately, I just end up driving myself because it's easier than dealing with the bs setup of everything, only to enjoy it for 5 minutes of a 12 hour trip, then trip it off and set it up again.

The only situation where I've actually been able to utilize cruise control for more than 15 minutes is when I head down to myrtle beach. I set my cruise control to 65 on I95 and sit for 10 hours. Everyone passes me and probably hates me, but it's a massive road, not a single lane. I wouldn't go the speed limit on a single lane road with 15 cars behind me. Even so I'm watching my mirrors and if it gets jumbled up, I'll speed up for a bit until the traffic irons itself out. I do 65 specifically because I get 22mpg in my truck, where at 70mph i get 17mpg which means I couldn't make it on a single tank. At 65mph, I can make it to myrtle beach, drive around for a week, and only refuel when coming back.

 

[mikester]

1 - I don't believe that line of reasoning would hold up

2 - If a driver uses AI to "drive" the car, at the end of the day, isn't it still the responsibility of the driver to control their vehicle anyway? Kind of like suing a car manufacturer for making a car that drives too fast and you got busted for speeding IMO.

Simple solution - Make it illegal to operate a motor vehicle on a PUBLIC roadway using AI. OF course people will not follow this law, but if an accident occurs, no legal course for the driver to blame the manufacturer.

I still remember this one a couple of years ago that made the local news. Guy has a medical degree and is watching TV in his car at night driving?

Raleigh Tesla driver watching movie on autopilot crashes into Nash County deputy's car, troopers say

A Raleigh Tesla driver was watching a movie while on autopilot when he crashed into a Nash County deputy's vehicle early Wednesday, according to state troopers.

abc11.com

Tesla sells "AUTOPILOT"

Cadillac is selling "DRIVER ASSIST"

Both are self driving technologies.

Read this article

Tesla recalling 54,000 self-driving cars for rolling stop bug - National | Globalnews.ca

Tesla says it will patch a problem with some of its vehicles' self-driving features that has seen cars go through stop signs in a rolling stop.

globalnews.ca

"Tesla is recalling nearly 54,000 cars and SUVs because their “Full Self-Driving” software lets them roll through stop signs without coming to a complete halt."

In this recall example Tesla programmed the cars to break the laws by rolling through stops to save battery charge. I think Tesla should pay any tickets for their cars breaking the laws.

You can't suck and blow at the same time. Tesla isn't promoting some sort of "cruise control" but high tech self driving and is misleading people into believing their vehicles are fully autonomous. When you buy a Tesla your vehicle is always connected to the internet and is receiving regular software "updates" meaning owners have no control over what Tesla is doing to their cars.

I think the car manufacturers DO share liability if they are in full control of your vehicle. Claiming to be a software technology company should not absolve anyone of bad behavior or poor decisions which affect peoples lives.

 

[Spike56]

Ridiculous​

Tesla​

Tesla’s “Full Self-Driving” beta mode, or FSD, was once only available to drivers with a passing score determined by their car’s driver monitoring system. Now, the feature is rolling out to the masses — or anyone willing to pay for it.

You can request FSD from your driver’s screen or the app, but the price may make you do a double take:

• FSD is available for $15,000 when you purchase a new vehicle.
• Already own a Tesla? You can also pay a subscription fee of $99 if you have Basic Autopilot and want to add FSD capability.
• If you have Enhanced Autopilot and want to add FSD capability, it’ll set you back $199 per month.

 

[Sigarms]

"Tesla is recalling nearly 54,000 cars and SUVs because their “Full Self-Driving” software lets them roll through stop signs without coming to a complete halt."

Wait, your supposed to come to a complete halt at a stop sign?

 

[MossRoad]

Wait, your supposed to come to a complete halt at a stop sign?

 

[LHF2019]

Driving home from the hospital today, long mountain road. Driving behind a tesla. 40mph speed limit, did 35-40mph. Then it dropped to 35mph, and we were doing 30-35mph. Then it dropped to 25, and we were doing 20-25mph.

Then it went to 35, and we were doing 30-35. I was stuck behind him for miles, on a road that normally is very pleasant to drive 45-60. Nice, long, flowing bends and hills with wonderful scenery. And I was staring at the ass end of a pos tesla in self driving mode.

This is how self driving cars will cause road rage, and get their drivers killed.

I was holding out hope that it was just some old people driving, but then it came to a gradual, but complete stop, like it was stopping at a stop sign, when it saw this. It got confused. It was in the up position, for the record.

Clearly you are the issue. You won't relax and enjoy the scenery and clearly state the speed limit laws are to be disregarded and you will blame somebody else for your issues.

Don't care. If i'm going to hand over power, it had better be perfect. Otherwise, why am I handing over power? People die in car crashes all the time, but they're stupid people driving stupidly. I'm a skilled driver paying attention, and do not get into accidents. Having a self driving car might reduce the idiot's chance of an accident, but it would increase my chances of an accident.

Very arrogant attitude there. Better than everybody else. I think your chances of being in an accident will be caused by your arrogance." I'm all that".

I don't agree, I have the power. I have the power to avoid accidents, and I use it all the time. I keep track of every car in 50 yards of me in all directions. Front, rear, sides. I don't just get into a car and ride, I get into a car and actively drive. I can't remember the last time I was a passenger in the car, though.

I do have that skid without a cage, and I have not rolled it once. I'm aware of my surroundings, not just what's in front of me.

Accidents happen, sometimes. And on occasion, they're unavoidable even with the best awareness. But more often than not, they happen because of negligence, people not paying attention to what they're doing or where they're going. Even without distractions like phones and radio, people just get behind the wheel and only pay attention to what's in front of them, and get into the zone, and that's it.

People, all to often, are passengers in life, and in cars, even while driving. They are simply not paying attention to their surroundings. And it's a real issue.

"I have the power" sounds like to many cartoons for you. I for one glad you are far away but disappointed live in the same state with such an arrogant..........

I'm not so sure those skills fade as quickly as you think. I drive my truck regularly, which is not a performance vehicle. On occasion I hop in the jag and take it out to the twisties, screaming tires, wrist flicking turns, not quite pedal to the metal because the road can't handle it, but pretty close. I love the speed and the bends pulling me to the side, it just feels good, but it's always over to quickly. A mile or two then it's time to move on. There's a 911 turbo and a Lamborghini aventador around here that i've seen have the same fun. Every once in a while we'll meet up at random and it'll become a game to see if the lead car can pull away from the rear car. That is a rush.

About the time you come around a corner and somebody had the misfortune of a flat or breakdown with oncoming traffic so you can't "maneuver" and you kill somebody. Your right "it's always over to quick" I'm sure it will be somebody else's fault. Not yours.